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Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! Why?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:38 am
by sotong
I deleted an email address more than a month ago. Although I've tried my best to notify all my contacts (several hundreds of business & personal contacts) of change to new Gmail address, there are people who didn't receive my notification or forgot about it and continued to send to my deleted email address.

What I was expecting from Exetel was that if my email address was deleted, then all incoming emails from that point will be bounced or rejected as returned mails to the sender(s). However, this is not the case. Sender(s) still can send emails to deleted Exetel email accounts successfully.

I used verify-email.org to check and here is the result of sending email to my deleted email address: (to protect my privacy, I've substituted my email address to xxxxxxxxx)

Result: Ok

Log:
MX record about exemail.com.au exists.
Connection succeeded to ipmx2.po.exetel.com.au SMTP.
220 mscip02.mailsentry.net.au ESMTP
> HELO verify-email.org
250 mscip02.mailsentry.net.au
> MAIL FROM: <check@verify-email.org>
=250 sender <check@verify-email.org> ok
> RCPT TO: <xxxxxxxxxxxx@exemail.com.au>
=250 recipient <xxxxxxxxxxxx@exemail.com.au> ok


As a result, for one month and still continuing, I have missed important dates, meetings with clients, interviews, datelines because these senders are still sending to my deleted email address. They didn't know that I didn't receive their emails because Exetel is still allowing them to send to a deleted email address, although I no longer can log in to this deleted email account to retrieve. This has caused me so much stress and inconvenience, and lost opportunities!

I've contacted Exetel several times and they keep insisting the email address was deleted but wouldn't confirm if they would stop further incoming emails. By default they should stop all incoming emails on a deleted email address because this is the only way to tell the sender(s) that the email address is no longer in existence and I believe as soon as the sender(s) got their rejected mails, they would try to contact me by other means.

Very disappointed with Exetel's service.

To illustrate further, I have another deleted Gmail address and I used the same verify email site to verify and the results was what I was expecting and correct. Sender(s) no longer can send to the deleted email address and WILL get a rejected/returned mail! See sample:

Result: Bad

Log:
MX record about gmail.com exists.
Connection succeeded to alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com SMTP.
220 mx.google.com ESMTP r59si10466733eeh.88
> HELO verify-email.org
250 mx.google.com at your service
> MAIL FROM: <check@verify-email.org>
=250 2.1.0 OK r59si10466733eeh.88
> RCPT TO: <xxxxxxxx@gmail.com>
=550-5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist. Please try

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:35 am
by Dazzled
From that demo, the account appears to exist. Why use a third party, though, to run a telnet connection? Try the address by webmail, to see if there is a response, and also by telnet directly:
To test existence, from a terminal/prompt window:
telnet pop3.nsw.exemail.com.au 110
user your-email-address
pass your-email-password
list
quit

There will be handshake messages returned, but you would expect to fail at the password. The conversation quoted from verify-email.org (HELO onwards) is the underlying telnet for sending an email to Exemail and Gmail using their mail server, but they didn't include the DATA command. The reply of 250 to RCPT TO indicates acceptance.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:45 pm
by sotong
Dazzled wrote:From that demo, the account appears to exist. Why use a third party, though, to run a telnet connection? Try the address by webmail, to see if there is a response, and also by telnet directly:
To test existence, from a terminal/prompt window:
telnet pop3.nsw.exemail.com.au 110
user your-email-address
pass your-email-password
list
quit

There will be handshake messages returned, but you would expect to fail at the password. The conversation quoted from verify-email.org (HELO onwards) is the underlying telnet for sending an email to Exemail and Gmail using their mail server, but they didn't include the DATA command. The reply of 250 to RCPT TO indicates acceptance.
Thanks for your reply. I'm not an expert in the computer language and therefore unable to understand your suggestion. All I know is if I send email to xxxxxxx@exemail.com.au, it gets sent successfully and no returned mail. If I send email to the deleted Gmail account to xxxxxxx@gmail.com, it gets sent successfully but then I get an almost immediate returned mail stating delivery failed because the account does not exist.

Daily email users like most of us do not know how to use the verification method you suggested. All we know is that if an email is sent to a correct address and it does not get rejected, then the email is successfully sent. Using web site like verify-email.org to verify was more like seeking a second opinion, which confirmed my situation.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:36 pm
by Dazzled
I suggested a direct no-programming-needed method of checking, for all operating systems, that does not need a third party like verify-email.org, as well as a very simple method - Exetel webmail, at https://webmail.exetel.com.au/src/login.php. I hoped it would be helpful.

If you can log into the old Exetel account by webmail then it hasn't actually been scrubbed. This appears to be the case, and an email to residentialsupport@exetel.com.au would ensure it is correctly wiped.

The return code 550 you got for the deleted Gmail address means only that the mail sending server could not execute your request because the target mailbox is unavailable. No email account is obviously a likely reason, but so are a range of other things; you can't be certain. Exetel on the other hand returned 250, which means everything is good, keep going.

There is only one way to be absolutely certain that a recipient has got your message, and that is to force him to reply to you. This sort of thing goes beyond everyday usage.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:03 pm
by sotong
Dazzled wrote:I suggested a direct no-programming-needed method of checking, for all operating systems, that does not need a third party like verify-email.org, as well as a very simple method - Exetel webmail, at https://webmail.exetel.com.au/src/login.php. I hoped it would be helpful.

If you can log into the old Exetel account by webmail then it hasn't actually been scrubbed. This appears to be the case, and an email to residentialsupport@exetel.com.au would ensure it is correctly wiped.

The return code 550 you got for the deleted Gmail address means only that the mail sending server could not execute your request because the target mailbox is unavailable. No email account is obviously a likely reason, but so are a range of other things; you can't be certain. Exetel on the other hand returned 250, which means everything is good, keep going.

There is only one way to be absolutely certain that a recipient has got your message, and that is to force him to reply to you. This sort of thing goes beyond everyday usage.
Thanks. My complaint is not about Exetel did not delete my account. I can confirm they did because I am unable to log in to webmail. My concern is after my email account is deleted, people can continue to send emails to a deleted account. They should not be able to and Exetel has a responsibility to bounce/reject these emails as returned mails as soon as an email address is deleted. That's all I want.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:19 pm
by Mixer
sotong wrote: Thanks. My complaint is not about Exetel did not delete my account. I can confirm they did because I am unable to log in to webmail. My concern is after my email account is deleted, people can continue to send emails to a deleted account. They should not be able to and Exetel has a responsibility to bounce/reject these emails as returned mails as soon as an email address is deleted. That's all I want.
Two things...Just because you can't log in does not mean the address is deleted, so do as Dazzled suggested and email res support, it could well be that your address at exemail has been taken up by someone else who is wondering WHF all this junk email is arriving.
Secondly there are heaps of ISPs and other providers worldwide who do not bother to bounce emails. It can be frustrating but the onus is on you to notify everyone.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:11 pm
by udara
sotong wrote: Thanks. My complaint is not about Exetel did not delete my account. I can confirm they did because I am unable to log in to webmail. My concern is after my email account is deleted, people can continue to send emails to a deleted account. They should not be able to and Exetel has a responsibility to bounce/reject these emails as returned mails as soon as an email address is deleted. That's all I want.
Hi sotong

I can see a few email addresses under your account and a few of them have been already deleted .

Would you please be able to PM me the email address that you are having the the above issue with enabling me to look in to it :)

I have created a ticket with reference 4652068, for this issue.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:48 am
by sotong
udara wrote:
sotong wrote: Thanks. My complaint is not about Exetel did not delete my account. I can confirm they did because I am unable to log in to webmail. My concern is after my email account is deleted, people can continue to send emails to a deleted account. They should not be able to and Exetel has a responsibility to bounce/reject these emails as returned mails as soon as an email address is deleted. That's all I want.
Hi sotong

I can see a few email addresses under your account and a few of them have been already deleted .

Would you please be able to PM me the email address that you are having the the above issue with enabling me to look in to it :)

I have created a ticket with reference 4652068, for this issue.
Completely lost total confidence with Exetel service. Am considering cancelling ALL service and closing account, and taking my business elsewhere!

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:00 pm
by felix
sotong wrote:I've contacted Exetel several times and they keep insisting the email address was deleted but wouldn't confirm if they would stop further incoming emails. By default they should stop all incoming emails on a deleted email address because this is the only way to tell the sender(s) that the email address is no longer in existence and I believe as soon as the sender(s) got their rejected mails, they would try to contact me by other means.

Very disappointed with Exetel's service.
As Mixer said, it could have been picked up by another user, in which case it is no longer yours and the Exetel staff cannot (by policy and legislation) comment on whether an email is incoming or outgoing.

In all seriousness, simply advising a new address and deleting the old one without a 1-3 month changeover period whereby the old address forwards to the new one is crazy. Likely that Exetel disabled no-recipient advisories as they get blasted everyday with hundreds of thousands of SPAM to invalid recipients. Sending an advisory to every one of these would build up in bandwidth and server processing time.

The T&C of the Exetel email service state it's an "as you find it" service where there is all care and support, but no responsibility for how you use it. Perhaps you should look in the mirror and be very disappointed with your own service, rather than expecting Exetel to do your housework for you.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:02 pm
by sotong
felix wrote:
sotong wrote:I've contacted Exetel several times and they keep insisting the email address was deleted but wouldn't confirm if they would stop further incoming emails. By default they should stop all incoming emails on a deleted email address because this is the only way to tell the sender(s) that the email address is no longer in existence and I believe as soon as the sender(s) got their rejected mails, they would try to contact me by other means.

Very disappointed with Exetel's service.
As Mixer said, it could have been picked up by another user, in which case it is no longer yours and the Exetel staff cannot (by policy and legislation) comment on whether an email is incoming or outgoing.

In all seriousness, simply advising a new address and deleting the old one without a 1-3 month changeover period whereby the old address forwards to the new one is crazy. Likely that Exetel disabled no-recipient advisories as they get blasted everyday with hundreds of thousands of SPAM to invalid recipients. Sending an advisory to every one of these would build up in bandwidth and server processing time.

The T&C of the Exetel email service state it's an "as you find it" service where there is all care and support, but no responsibility for how you use it. Perhaps you should look in the mirror and be very disappointed with your own service, rather than expecting Exetel to do your housework for you.
Wow what a rude reply! Do you work for Exetel? Is this the way you help your customers resolve their problem by telling them to stuff it ("you should look in the mirror")? I know you are in the I.T. and think that you are high up on the pedestal and far superior than anyone. So easy for you to point your fingers at the customers and call them idiots isn't it!? What about offering some decent solutions to my issue OR admit that Exetel just simply do not have the technology/resources to return mails for closed email accounts.

I've already found my own solution so whatever you said is irrelevant anyway. "rather than expecting Exetel to do your housework for you"...so Exetel expects me to pay premium price for their service but when there are problems they want to have nothing to do with it and blame their customers for not doing their own housekeeping?! Wow what a way to run a business & treat their customers. Deplorable!

To site admin, please close this tread as I've found my own fix to the problem. Thanks

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:39 pm
by Dazzled
Sotong, I have understood from the start of this thread that you are annoyed by this. Now it's off your chest and you have other arrangements let's all calm a bit.

I don't know if your account names were re-issued or not, but if they were, a bounce message would be entirely inappropriate. If they were not re-issued, a private email or PM conversation with Udara should have sorted it.

Felix and Mixer both made valid observations concerning email, however worded. I also hope we understand that a 550 return does not specifically mean "account doesn't exist".

Your suggestion that Exetel staff want to have nothing to do with problems is unfounded, and capable of offending.

I hope we can leave sotong's problem behind from this point. I am inclined to leave the thread unlocked in case other users have a related problem.

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:44 pm
by jokiin
sotong wrote:
Wow what a rude reply! Do you work for Exetel? Is this the way you help your customers resolve their problem by telling them to stuff it ("you should look in the mirror")? I know you are in the I.T. and think that you are high up on the pedestal and far superior than anyone. So easy for you to point your fingers at the customers and call them idiots isn't it!? What about offering some decent solutions to my issue OR admit that Exetel just simply do not have the technology/resources to return mails for closed email accounts.
felix does not work for Exetel, opinions expressed are his own

Re: Email Address Deleted But Senders Still Can Send Mail! W

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:40 pm
by felix
jokiin wrote:
sotong wrote:
Wow what a rude reply! Do you work for Exetel? Is this the way you help your customers resolve their problem by telling them to stuff it ("you should look in the mirror")? I know you are in the I.T. and think that you are high up on the pedestal and far superior than anyone. So easy for you to point your fingers at the customers and call them idiots isn't it!? What about offering some decent solutions to my issue OR admit that Exetel just simply do not have the technology/resources to return mails for closed email accounts.
felix does not work for Exetel, opinions expressed are his own
I do not work for Exetel however I do work in IT and have a strong understanding of the difference between informed and un-informed customer expectations. There is no pedestal, only an expectation that a customer will make a fair and reasonable attempt to understand the product/service they are buying - rather than buying blind and the accusing the provider of incompetence/apathy/malice when something doesn't work the way they expected.