IP Address change - Discussion

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jokiin
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Re: Financial and business impact from this

Post by jokiin » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:37 pm

cytec wrote:This is really unacceptable in my circumstance. A few week weeks ago I placed a small (2 computer) business on an Exetel ADSL 1 home plan because they wanted remote access setup from home over a VPN and remote desktop.
if you have setup VPN access from home won't it just be a matter of updating the IP address they will connect to, should be able to do that over the phone if going there isn't an option

NetworkAdmin
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Re: Financial and business impact from this

Post by NetworkAdmin » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:00 pm

cytec wrote:This is really unacceptable in my circumstance. A few week weeks ago I placed a small (2 computer) business on an Exetel ADSL 1 home plan because they wanted remote access setup from home over a VPN and remote desktop.

When talking to the client on the phone about various ISP's, one the great things I was able say about Exetel was the free static IP as opposed to Bigpond. Now what Exetel management is telling me is that this client could lose that VPN connection and the entire setup that they paid me good money to go and setup and put their faith in Exetel because of my professional recommendation.

Not only do I look completely stupid now but this could financially hurt me and my relationship with this client. This is COMPLETELY unacceptable. You cannot advertise static IP and then change it regardless of home / business plans. Both still say "Free Static IP". In the case of this client that advertisement would appear to be misleading.
1. Your IP address does not change each time you log in, as it would with other ISP's that have dynamic IP address assignment

2. A residential grade ADSL circuit has not guarantee of service availability. It is not recommended for any business use where network/Internet access is important

3. It is a once off change

4. Continuity of IP addresses can be assured through a) a business grade connection, b) purchase of an IP subset block

cytec
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Financial and business impact from this

Post by cytec » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:15 pm

The client has no idea about the technical setup. Staff can get in remotely from their homes, I would have to go back out and reset the modem (to pickup new IP) and then go through the home computers and laptops. Client should not have to go through that.

Also regarding the following term from network admin:

no guarantee of service availability

That just scared the living daylights out of me. My ENTIRE IT business operates on an Exetel voip number attached to my residential connection. What would happen if Exetel decided to clear out its voip numbers? That could cost me over 50k in losses.

Think about this stuff people an IP address is like a phone, fax number or email address for some people and is a key reason for purchasing a specific product. (In this case Exetel ADSL 1). If I had known that the static IP advertisement was misleading I would have stopped putting my customers with Exetel a LONG time ago!

No guarantee of service availability means no service. It does not mean a change of service, that is the product is now different to when it was purchased (sort of like if Telstra phoned everyone up and said "Your about to lose your phone number because we are changing them to make it easier for management".) I also have other customers that all have various services running on Exetel static IP addresses.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Financial and business impact from this

Post by CoreyPlover » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:09 am

cytec wrote:The client has no idea about the technical setup. Staff can get in remotely from their homes, I would have to go back out and reset the modem (to pickup new IP) and then go through the home computers and laptops. Client should not have to go through that
...
I also have other customers that all have various services running on Exetel static IP addresses.
You are right: clients should not have to go through that. But I think much of the fault for this lies on your own shoulders. You are setting up client businesses on residential grade services? I hope you are clearly informing them of the potential risks of this practice, because you will have no recourse to Exetel if your clients lose internet connectivity.

An easy solution in the case of these changing IP address (and to protect against future changes, changes in ISPs, relocation of hardware, ease of remembering, etc) would be to simply set up a dynamic DNS record.
cytec wrote:You cannot advertise static IP and then change it regardless of home / business plans. Both still say "Free Static IP". In the case of this client that advertisement would appear to be misleading.
Unlike the rest of your posts, this statement does have some merit. I think the wording currently used is "permanent IP address" but your reasoning still stands. Perhaps the term "reserved dynamic IP address" would be more apt.
cytec wrote:My ENTIRE IT business operates on an Exetel voip number attached to my residential connection. What would happen if Exetel decided to clear out its voip numbers? That could cost me over 50k in losses.
This is why you do not run a business on a residential service. I hate to be so blunt, but as soon as you say anything like "my business operates on an Exetel residential ADSL service" you are completely on your own and you have no grounds on with to defend your position. There are very explicit clauses in your contract that highlight these perils.
cytec wrote:No guarantee of service availability means no service.
No it doesn't. I suggest you stop erroneously nitpicking on the wording and read your contractual terms and conditions:
Residential Grade Service means a service that does not carry a service level agreement, or a guarantee of uptime. (Exetel imply and express no warranties as to its suitability or availability for any purpose. Exetel doesn't recommend residential grade services for business needs, or mission critical purposes.)

austdata
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Re: Financial and business impact from this

Post by austdata » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:48 am

cytec wrote:(sort of like if Telstra phoned everyone up and said "Your about to lose your phone number because we are changing them to make it easier for management".)
Sorry Cytec, especially after Corey has been so blunt, but Telstra have done just that when they decided to change from 7 digit phone numbers to 8 and most of us ended up with a 9 prepended to our existing number (or as one intelligence challenged Analyst Programmer put it, appended to the front :roll: ).

These things happen and those of that are in business need to make allowances for changes and failures. My customers wont blame my suppliers for any problems, they'll blame me and rightly so.

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

cytec
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by cytec » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:01 am

Is it possible to get several residential services converted over to business? In this case the static IP is not important but I cannot afford to lose the attached voip numbers.

James
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by James » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:41 am

cytec wrote:Is it possible to get several residential services converted over to business? In this case the static IP is not important but I cannot afford to lose the attached voip numbers.
The VoIP numbers aren't changing, why would they?

But, I would suggest you look at the business grade plans if you are running a business from home; http://www.exetel.com.au/bga-overview.php

They come with a 99.95% uptime guarantee.

lownoise
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by lownoise » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:28 pm

NetworkAdmin wrote:
lownoise wrote:will the DNS IP addresses change?
Since the DNS record for your IP address includes the IP address, then yes, it will change to reflect your new IP address.
sorry - I phrased that question incorrectly - will the DNS server ip(s) remain the same?

[edit] - I gather from a previous post that the DNS servers will not change from 220.233.0.4 220.233.0.3

jabez
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by jabez » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:44 pm

Hi I received the email & this may be a really silly question, but here goes anyway. I have my email hosted via my own domain. Will this affect me or will it be an automatic update? And if not automatic what do I need to do?

NetworkAdmin
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by NetworkAdmin » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:55 pm

lownoise wrote:
NetworkAdmin wrote:
lownoise wrote:will the DNS IP addresses change?
Since the DNS record for your IP address includes the IP address, then yes, it will change to reflect your new IP address.
sorry - I phrased that question incorrectly - will the DNS server ip(s) remain the same?

[edit] - I gather from a previous post that the DNS servers will not change from 220.233.0.4 220.233.0.3
That is correct, the DNS server settings wont change.

NetworkAdmin
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by NetworkAdmin » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:56 pm

jabez wrote:Hi I received the email & this may be a really silly question, but here goes anyway. I have my email hosted via my own domain. Will this affect me or will it be an automatic update? And if not automatic what do I need to do?
Is your email server using the IP address of your ADSL service?

jabez
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by jabez » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:43 pm

NetworkAdmin wrote:Is your email server using the IP address of your ADSL service?
Yes

jokiin
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by jokiin » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:46 pm

jabez wrote:
NetworkAdmin wrote:Is your email server using the IP address of your ADSL service?
Yes
then update the DNS records to the new IP address and switch over and it will be fine

NetworkAdmin
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by NetworkAdmin » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:50 pm

jabez wrote:
NetworkAdmin wrote:Is your email server using the IP address of your ADSL service?
Yes
What Jokiin said is correct, that is what you will need to do.

linarms
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Re: IP Address change - Discussion

Post by linarms » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:43 pm

NetworkAdmin wrote:
linarms wrote:I'm pretty annoyed about this. Very annoyed, actually.

Not only do I have various DNS records pointing at my current address, I also have a number of clients using IP-based ACL's to grant me access to their systems, and quite frankly, "my ISP is cleaning out its sock drawer" is a lame reason for me to give them when the time comes for them to change their routers, PLUS it sucks that I have to give them a specific timeframe to complete the work.
You really should use a business grade service for an Internet based business. Or at least get a /30 or bigger block for your hosted servers
My complaint is not just about my hosted services (I'm the only one who uses them); I'm more concerned about connecting to hosts as a client, and the reconfiguration that will be required on their end. If you're suggesting I need business grade internet in order to connect to these hosts reliably when I'm working from home, you're joking, right?

Anyway, obviously I'll arrange for the change to be made, but I think you should know that changes like these *do* jerk people around and cost other people money. While it's great that you're giving us some warning, it's not great that the change needs to happen in the first place.

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