Offpeak speed slow

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brent0r
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Location: Gold Coast, Biggera Waters

Offpeak speed slow

Post by brent0r » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:51 pm

I am currently using Naked ADSL2 which has an offpeak time of 12midnight - 12noon. The first 4 months I have had really consistant download speeds during off-peak hours and has been really great. I use a download scheduler and have had no dramas what so ever. The last few weeks it seems like my speed has been forced to a slower 150kb/s speed. Is this likely to be the case or would this be a problem at my end? Line sync hasn't changed during these times or at all since joining exetel. Any suggestions or ideas on what could be the problem?

Thanks :)

brent0r
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Location: Gold Coast, Biggera Waters

Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by brent0r » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:47 pm

Would someone care to look into this for me?

Dazzled
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by Dazzled » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:29 pm

From just that information it's hard to tell. Downloaders and P2P running post-midnight can use up a lot of bandwidth, and it could, for example, be congestion at the Optus equipment at your exchange and backhaul to Exetel. Slow ping times or losses to routers near to you at Exetel would suggest that. It could also be congestion anywhere from overseas routes to the servers themselves at those times. Again, traceroutes and pings or mtr could give an indication. Nobody is being singled out for throttling.

You can see the effect of Exetel customers' downloaders coming in at the start of the off-peak periods (midnight, and 2 am) here: http://public.mrtg.exetel.com.au/bwsumm ... mmary.html

brent0r
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Location: Gold Coast, Biggera Waters

Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by brent0r » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:17 am

Im not sure exactly what information I should provide to help come to a conclusion for this problem but I've pasted a few speedtests right up until midnight just to show whats going on. The problem definately exists smack bang on midnight and comes right as soon as offpeak ends. Trace to astraweb doesnt seem slow or lagging anywhere, and speeds prior to my slow down were consistantly great. Gaming is fine to local and international servers too.
Is there anyway to check if the problem is indeed at my local exchange or am i simply stuck with this frustrating problem?

Tracing route to ssl-us.astraweb.com [216.151.153.137]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 1 ms 1 ms http://www.routerlogin.com [192.168.0.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 28 ms 28 ms 27 ms 3.3.96.58.static.exetel.com.au [58.96.3.3]
4 29 ms 28 ms 28 ms 98.3.96.58.static.exetel.com.au [58.96.3.98]
5 44 ms 43 ms 73 ms 119.225.28.205
6 51 ms 49 ms 48 ms 10.250.21.3
7 45 ms 45 ms 45 ms 61.88.241.109
8 206 ms 222 ms 225 ms 203.208.148.1
9 214 ms 234 ms 229 ms xe-0-1-1-0.laxow-dr3.ix.singtel.com [203.208.149
.125]
10 207 ms 218 ms 236 ms ve423.fr3.lax.llnw.net [69.28.144.205]
11 227 ms 249 ms 214 ms tge13-2.fr3.sjc.llnw.net [69.28.189.10]
12 221 ms 221 ms 226 ms 69.28.150.2
13 205 ms 205 ms 205 ms 216.151.153.137

Trace complete.


[`[*Test Results from <a href="http://www.ozspeedtest.com/bandwidth-te ... 235706">Oz Broadband Speed Test</a>*]`]
[(----------------------------------
Test run on [*21/09/2010*] @ [*11:53 PM*])]

[(Mirror: [*Exetel*]
Data: [*9 MB*]
Test Time: [*9.79 secs*])]

[(Your line speed is [*7.72 Mbps*] (7719 kbps).
Your download speed is [*965 KB/s*] (0.94 MB/s). )]


[`[*Test Results from <a href="http://www.ozspeedtest.com/bandwidth-te ... 235749">Oz Broadband Speed Test</a>*]`]
[(----------------------------------
Test run on [*21/09/2010*] @ [*11:59 PM*])]

[(Mirror: [*Exetel*]
Data: [*9 MB*]
Test Time: [*10.34 secs*])]

[(Your line speed is [*7.31 Mbps*] (7312 kbps).
Your download speed is [*914 KB/s*] (0.89 MB/s). )]


[`[*Test Results from <a href="http://www.ozspeedtest.com/bandwidth-te ... 235776">Oz Broadband Speed Test</a>*]`]
[(----------------------------------
Test run on [*22/09/2010*] @ [*12:01 AM*])]

[(Mirror: [*Exetel*]
Data: [*9 MB*]
Test Time: [*74.09 secs*])]

[(Your line speed is [*1.02 Mbps*] (1020 kbps).
Your download speed is [*128 KB/s*] (0.12 MB/s). )]

Image

Dazzled
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by Dazzled » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:06 am

I wouldn't put much weight on Ozspeedtest actual values, but speedtest.net is usually indicative and they show the slowdown you refer to. The server is local, but the traffic appears to be high when the clock turns midnight.

You can verify this result by aiming your downloader software at microsoft.com which has a fast server co-located with Exetel in Sydney (so cutting out overseas links). Try single and multiple connections. You will probably find time of day related slowdowns (backhaul and exchange) getting data back to your place.

The traceroute interestingly tells us that you get quickly to Exetel, and then get handed on to Optus in Sydney at 119.225.28.205. The next step is 203.208.148.1 at Singapore, and you can see the overseas cables affect the timing. Optus has not used the direct cable at that time. From Singapore the route goes direct to the USA.

I ran several traces of my own just now (breakfast time) to ssl-us.astraweb.com, using Windows and Linux methods, and in each case was routed directly to the USA at 180-190 ms.

The mrtg graphs show how just Exetel downloads surge at that time. Other ISPs' customers do the same and the effect on the internet is cumulative.

brent0r
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Location: Gold Coast, Biggera Waters

Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by brent0r » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:37 am

Microsoft downloads are slow, the whole internet no matter what ip is slow. This isn't much fun considering our home has multiple devices that need reliable internet. Don't worry I have run isolated tests and the problem still exists.
I am not so sure now that this is being caused by local congestion. I know for a fact that a second past 12 lunch time my internet returns to normal, which happens to be the second onpeak starts again. Could it be possible there is any error somewhere in exetels system that its slowing me or automatically doing something that could be causing this?
Surly if it was local congestion that there would be times between midnight and 12 noon that for whatever reason some "room" becomes free and speeds increase slightly, but again this isnt the case. I'm running out of ideas :( Would there be a way for exetel to look into logs etc and see if my exchange is suffering?

As you can see my modem is syncing at a reasonable adsl2 speed.

ADSL Firmware Version 7.03.01.66
Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 9777 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 812 kbps


Guess we'll be waiting for 12 noon before we can download, err thats when peak starts :(

thomashouseman
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by thomashouseman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:36 am

See also: viewtopic.php?f=284&t=36856 for more reports of suspected throttling.

Dazzled
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by Dazzled » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:04 pm

For what my experience is worth, I use both Usenet and Bit Torrent. I don't normally schedule, but I have noticed a slowdown at midnight, which picks up again. It doesn't affect the result.

For Usenet, I usually use port 80 rather than secured ports 563 or 443, or nntp 119. I usually have up to 8 open connections, and avoid US servers at night. It's worthwhile swapping these settings about to find what is best for you. I use Pan under Linux, and so am not troubled by anti-virus suites or Windows firewalls. Some Usenet accounts are speed-throttled at the servers. For P2P I use Deluge with up to 400 connections (450 maxes the modem), mostly encrypted. Direct downloads (usually iso files) are done with wget for single connections, or axel if the server is happy with multiple connections.

PS nzb files are done by having unrar, par2, and hellanzb installed. Just click on the nzb file and it downloads and unwraps automatically.

brent0r
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Location: Gold Coast, Biggera Waters

Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by brent0r » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:57 am

It's sad to see, I had no idea exetel throttled and I thought I had unlimited off peak anyway? I always thought with my particual plan that if I went over my peak allowance I would be slowed. Am under 10gigs peak so far (I'm allowed 30gig). This month I've download well under 200gigs too. What way would you suggest I go to get this problem fixed then? I would also like to know where I stand so this doesnt happen again. It's like I have been punished but the rules aren't too clear. Anyone here know the exact conditions for throttling and how one goes about getting it removed. Very odd. Atleast if i know, I can keep an eye on our homes usage more carefully. Thanks for your help

thomashouseman
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by thomashouseman » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:27 am

I think you'll find certain protocols / port numbers are throttled. Exetel run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection and throttle certain packet types. Mainly Bittorrent ones. They also used to put users in different "pools" that throttled them more restrictivly the more they downloaded. Not sure if this still happens or not.

T.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:27 pm

thomashouseman wrote:I think you'll find certain protocols / port numbers are throttled. Exetel run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection and throttle certain packet types. Mainly Bittorrent ones. They also used to put users in different "pools" that throttled them more restrictivly the more they downloaded. Not sure if this still happens or not.
Exetel do not throttle, employ deep packet inspection, nor do they place users into download pools.

The DPI was the partial solution to the issue of heavy P2P usage saturating the network. This was replaced years ago with a P2P cache, which results in local delivery of enough cached content to remove the need for any deep packet inspection. Since then, P2P usage has decreased dramatically and bandwidth costs have reduced dramatically, making deep packet inspection completely unnecessary.

Exetel also have no need to place people in downloads pools. Back towards the start of the year, Exetel simply disconnected heavy leechers, telling them that their termination fees were waived and that they are no longer desired as customers of Exetel. Tantrums ensued but the net result is that the average download of Exetel's user base was drastically reduced. There is a natural protection against such leechers re-entering Exetel's user base and that is the ultra high download limits provided by other ISPs. So apart from voluntary shaping in place as a billing feature, there is no need to isolate pools of users any more.

The common explanation is that while Exetel's network is uncongested, and unthrottled, the same can not be guaranteed at local exchanges. For instance, Telstra has a proven track record of throttling resold 8Mbps connections to 3Mbps in order to address congestion at various exchanges so it is possible that something similar is happening here.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

thomashouseman
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by thomashouseman » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:47 pm

Well there you have it. Exetel no longer do any of those things I mentioned but did employ them in the past. However, offpeak times still slow considerably compared to on-peak times and it's caused by backhaul issues unrelated to Exetel. :wink:

ForumAdmin
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by ForumAdmin » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:19 pm

thomashouseman wrote:I think you'll find certain protocols / port numbers are throttled. Exetel run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection and throttle certain packet types. Mainly Bittorrent ones. They also used to put users in different "pools" that throttled them more restrictivly the more they downloaded. Not sure if this still happens or not.

T.
Thomas, it is almost two years since we disabled, then removed, the Israeli boxes we used to control bit torrent downloads.

Corey is correct in that the 'loss' of the more extraordinary of the heavy downloaders in the March - June period of this year removed the final issues with manic downloading - if you check the mrtg reports you will also see the moves of introducing successive new plans with different off peak start and end dates have finally, after almost 7 years, removed any hint of midnight congestion - the 12, 2 and 4 start times and 6 hour time periods are creating a very satisfactory 'range of hills on the mrtg reports.

The very significant build out and topography changes implemented throughout the whole of 2009 and through March of 2010 has massively changed the data delivery capability capabilities to Exetel customers and the change in demographics was also very helpful in this process. With 8 gbps delivered across the residential ADSL network it has considerable 'head room' in every State and Territory and will be kept that way.

It' taken a long time and a lot of money.

Franpa
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by Franpa » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:34 pm

Ah so thats why I haven't been experiencing incredibly slow/unresponsive internet for a few months now :) keep up the good work guys.
Windows 10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 920 | ASUS P6T Motherboard | 24GB RAM | MSI Gamer 1070Ti 8GB | Integrated Sound Card | Corsair AX760 Power Supply | Exetel ZTE H268 Modem

https://www.speedtest.net/result/8729259527 (during low neighbourhood congestion)

thomashouseman
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Re: Offpeak speed slow

Post by thomashouseman » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:38 am

Hmm, well then....

could you kindly ask Optus to keep up their end of the bargain with their backhauls as they're not up to scratch in the offpeak hours!

Or ask every other ISP that uses Optus as well to work on their hills and troughs too please? :)

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