Questions: Changing Plans

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bigteez
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:50 am

Questions: Changing Plans

Post by bigteez » Mon May 31, 2010 1:03 pm

Hi I am currently on the plan below and am looking at changing it to the current OTB plan.

Plan Type: INCPHONE Z
Monthly Access Charge: $55.00
Service Surcharge: $5.00
Peak Download Limit (Mbyte): 12000
Service Activation Date: 2007-02-06
Contract Period: 12 Months
Initial Contract End Date: 2008-02-06

I have a few questions before I make the change.

1. From what I can see, if i change to the OTB plan, I will be paying the same price for an extra 18Gigabyte of data. Is this correct?

2. I do not expect to pay the Line activation charge and be locked into a contract. Can someone confirm this also?

3. Giving me an extra 18Gig per months for free sounds too good to be true. Are there any other differences between these two plans?

4. I also just noticed that I've been charged a $3 monthly account administration fee. What is this? I don't believe I saw this when I initially signed up.

bigteez
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:50 am

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by bigteez » Mon May 31, 2010 1:12 pm

Also, I just noticed that my current plan: Excess Downloads per Gbyte: $6.00

I remember choosing the shaping option a few months back. I am confused why I would see this on my plan. Can someone confirm whether I will be shaped today or will I have to pay excess.

Thanks

CoreyPlover
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Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon May 31, 2010 1:58 pm

bigteez wrote:1. From what I can see, if i change to the OTB plan, I will be paying the same price for an extra 18Gigabyte of data. Is this correct?
Looks correct to me
bigteez wrote:2. I do not expect to pay the Line activation charge and be locked into a contract. Can someone confirm this also?
Contractual enquiries should be directed to billing@exetel.com.au. Use your member facilities as a guide as it should list any new contract that may be applicable, but I would think that INCPHONE to OT would be purely a bililng change, therefore no activation or new contract but that is just my opinion.
bigteez wrote:3. Giving me an extra 18Gig per months for free sounds too good to be true. Are there any other differences between these two plans?
No "off-peak". Instead you get a 2am-8am "unmetered" period which is largely equivalent to your INCPHONE offpeak, but shorter. The same sort of Acceptable Usage applies, so don't go overboard with unmetered downloads (though I think keeping to 60GB/month like for INCPHONE would be quite acceptable and you might argue 90GB/month would be too since it was the guidance for old NF/ plans)

The loss of off-peak also has ramifications for quota management. Previously, if you exceeded peak or off-peak you got shaped separately. Now you get shaped 24 hrs a day so be mindful of exceeding your limit. With an extra 18GB though, that shouldn't happen.
bigteez wrote:4. I also just noticed that I've been charged a $3 monthly account administration fee. What is this? I don't believe I saw this when I initially signed up.
This got introduced as a "levy" back in the time of the financial crisis. It was levied on each user (so if you have mutliple services you still only got billed $3/month) and intended to be a general buffer against bad things (such as carriers increasing costs, etc). Like the shaping overlay, this is a carry over from the past so changing plans means you will stop getting billed for this.
bigteez wrote:Also, I just noticed that my current plan: Excess Downloads per Gbyte: $6.00
I remember choosing the shaping option a few months back. I am confused why I would see this on my plan. Can someone confirm whether I will be shaped today or will I have to pay excess.
Shaping went through several incantations. After shaping was introduced, people leeched massive amounts for free from Exetel. So one month after introducing it, they capped the shaped allowance at 2GB of "free" buffer after which a $6/GB penalty was applied. This is what you currently see.

For the OT plan, you have an option for shaping or excess usage. "Shaping" is the default and you go to 512kbps shaped speeds if you exceed your limit (remember, there is no peak / off-peak on OT plans). This limit allows you to continue to use the service up to 50% of your allowance (so effectively gives you an extra 15GB shaped buffer). If you exceed this, you will be asked to move up to a higher plan. There is also a one-off ability to move to "Excess usage". Once you move, you can't move back to shaping and you will retain full speeds and simply be charged $0.50/GB excess.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Tazz
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:05 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by Tazz » Mon May 31, 2010 3:41 pm

No "off-peak". Instead you get a 2am-8am "unmetered" period which is largely equivalent to your INCPHONE offpeak, but shorter. The same sort of Acceptable Usage applies, so don't go overboard with unmetered downloads (though I think keeping to 60GB/month like for INCPHONE would be quite acceptable and you might argue 90GB/month would be too since it was the guidance for old NF/ plans)
Can't seem to find the Acceptable Usage page right now got a link?
I'm thinking of changing from the FP-C3 plan to the 1500D plan, which says the downloads between 2am - 8am don't count, so I presume the same Acceptable Usage would apply to that too?

sable
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:28 am
Location: NSW

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by sable » Mon May 31, 2010 4:21 pm

bigteez wrote:Also, I just noticed that my current plan: Excess Downloads per Gbyte: $6.00

I remember choosing the shaping option a few months back. I am confused why I would see this on my plan. Can someone confirm whether I will be shaped today or will I have to pay excess.

Thanks
As you chose the shaping option on your previous plan that shaping option has not been changed when you changed to your current plan. You need to send an email to residentialsupport@exetel.com.au requesting the old shaping option be removed from your account.

There are many treads about this.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon May 31, 2010 4:22 pm

Tazz wrote:Can't seem to find the Acceptable Usage page right now got a link?
http://exetel.com.au/a_acceptable_use_adsl2.php, though with the removal of "off-peak" the AUP mainly concentrates on non-quota aspects of usage. Terms and Conditions (current ones available from, say, https://www.exetel.com.au/form_include/optus_terms.php) specifically mention usage too. For instance:
Clause 6.7: Exetel is also entitled to suspend the Service under clause 13.1(a) for an unusually high use of the Service.
Clause 13.1(c): Exetel may suspend the Service at any time, without liability if Exetel reasonably believes there has been an unusually high use of the Service

"Unusually High Use" is defined as high usage of the Service on a short term basis that is not consistent with a Customer's normal pattern of use or a sustained high usage which exceeds the general average usage of customers on a similar pricing plan or who have accepted a similar Special Offer.

It is the latter definition that prohibits abuse of the unmetered period.
Tazz wrote:I'm thinking of changing from the FP-C3 plan to the 1500D plan, which says the downloads between 2am - 8am don't count, so I presume the same Acceptable Usage would apply to that too?
Yes. the AUP applies Exetel-wide. The Terms and Conditions are carrier specific but quite equivalent (see https://www.exetel.com.au/form_include/ ... _terms.php and https://www.exetel.com.au/nf_adsl2_byo/terms.html)
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Tazz
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:05 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by Tazz » Mon May 31, 2010 4:38 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
Tazz wrote:Can't seem to find the Acceptable Usage page right now got a link?
http://exetel.com.au/a_acceptable_use_adsl2.php, though with the removal of "off-peak" the AUP mainly concentrates on non-quota aspects of usage. Terms and Conditions (current ones available from, say, https://www.exetel.com.au/form_include/optus_terms.php) specifically mention usage too. For instance:
Clause 6.7: Exetel is also entitled to suspend the Service under clause 13.1(a) for an unusually high use of the Service.
Clause 13.1(c): Exetel may suspend the Service at any time, without liability if Exetel reasonably believes there has been an unusually high use of the Service

"Unusually High Use" is defined as high usage of the Service on a short term basis that is not consistent with a Customer's normal pattern of use or a sustained high usage which exceeds the general average usage of customers on a similar pricing plan or who have accepted a similar Special Offer.

It is the latter definition that prohibits abuse of the unmetered period.
Tazz wrote:I'm thinking of changing from the FP-C3 plan to the 1500D plan, which says the downloads between 2am - 8am don't count, so I presume the same Acceptable Usage would apply to that too?
Yes. the AUP applies Exetel-wide. The Terms and Conditions are carrier specific but quite equivalent (see https://www.exetel.com.au/form_include/ ... _terms.php and https://www.exetel.com.au/nf_adsl2_byo/terms.html)
I have a memory of seeing somewhere that the max acceptable in the 2am-8am period was 50% of your quota, now I can't seem to find it again...

CoreyPlover
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Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon May 31, 2010 5:07 pm

Tazz wrote:I have a memory of seeing somewhere that the max acceptable in the 2am-8am period was 50% of your quota, now I can't seem to find it again...
You might be confusing this for the shaping buffer.

The 2am-8am has no nominated limit. If you elect the shaping option, and use up more than 50% of your quota while shaped, you will be blocked for the remainder of the month (with the option to move to the next higher plan). This is alluded to on the pricing page under the AA plans but (according to forum posts) also applies to OT and ON plans.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Tazz
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:05 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by Tazz » Mon May 31, 2010 5:21 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
Tazz wrote:I have a memory of seeing somewhere that the max acceptable in the 2am-8am period was 50% of your quota, now I can't seem to find it again...
You might be confusing this for the shaping buffer.
Ahh that's it, thanks for reminding me what it was...

bigteez
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:50 am

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by bigteez » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:44 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:Contractual enquiries should be directed to billing@exetel.com.au. Use your member facilities as a guide as it should list any new contract that may be applicable, but I would think that INCPHONE to OT would be purely a bililng change, therefore no activation or new contract but that is just my opinion.
From my member facilities, it states Cost of plan change = $10 and Contract = Existing

When it says existing, that means, if my current contract has expired (which it has), I won't be locked into any contract?
CoreyPlover wrote:No "off-peak". Instead you get a 2am-8am "unmetered" period which is largely equivalent to your INCPHONE offpeak, but shorter.
To me, 2am - 8am is still essentially offpeak in a way. I wont be making use of this extremely small "unmetered" period anyway. I reckon, Exetel should offer customers the choice of offpeak periods. a 2am-8am is a very unattractive marketing ploy.

On average, I use around 10-20Gb offpeak in my current 2am-12pm timeframe, and most of that happens between 10-12am.
CoreyPlover wrote:This got introduced as a "levy" back in the time of the financial crisis. It was levied on each user (so if you have mutliple services you still only got billed $3/month) and intended to be a general buffer against bad things (such as carriers increasing costs, etc). Like the shaping overlay, this is a carry over from the past so changing plans means you will stop getting billed for this.
So essentially, I have been paying this additional $3/month because of the GFC AFTER the GFC has subsided. I read all the news and changes Exetel sends me, and don't recall seeing this in any of them.

bigteez
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:50 am

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by bigteez » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:48 pm

Currently my plan still shows an offpeak period of 2am-12pm.

If I do take up this new OTB plan, does that mean I am letting go of 4 hours of offpeak time?

CoreyPlover
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Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:31 pm

bigteez wrote:When it says existing, that means, if my current contract has expired (which it has), I won't be locked into any contract?
That would be my interpretation. "Existing" means whatever your contract end date was pre-changeover, you retain it, therefore you would still be "out of contract" and free to migrate between plans and ISPs.
bigteez wrote:2am-8am is a very unattractive marketing ploy...If I do take up this new OTB plan, does that mean I am letting go of 4 hours of offpeak time?
Yes, you will be letting go of 4 hours of off-peak. The whole concept of "off-peak and "unmetered" is that it is meant to represent an underutilised time window. By definition, this represents an inconvenient time interval and one that is deliberately intended to be for scheduled, non-time critical downloads. It is exactly the same concept as off-peak electricity or water usage. The loss of 4 hours is deliberate as 2am-8am is much more in line with this concept of "off-peak" than 12-12 or 2-12.
bigteez wrote:So essentially, I have been paying this additional $3/month because of the GFC AFTER the GFC has subsided. I read all the news and changes Exetel sends me, and don't recall seeing this in any of them.
There were emails regarding this. I can't locate mine, but http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... 83337.html for instance alludes to it (though the poster confuses it to be a payment processing fee when it was, in fact, an admin levy). The $3 was effectively a price levy, similar to the more recent $5 price increase on old plans, put in place during the early stages of the GFC. Post-GFC plans had these concepts priced into the basic monthly price and it is largely up to users to change to more recent plans to capitalise on cost or quota benefits.

Edit: Copy of $3 admin levy email at http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... #r17133898
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

bigteez
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:50 am

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by bigteez » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:46 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:There were emails regarding this. I can't locate mine, but http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... 83337.html for instance alludes to it (though the poster confuses it to be a payment processing fee when it was, in fact, an admin levy). The $3 was effectively a price levy, similar to the more recent $5 price increase on old plans, put in place during the early stages of the GFC. Post-GFC plans had these concepts priced into the basic monthly price and it is largely up to users to change to more recent plans to capitalise on cost or quota benefits.
1.5 years ago. Must have forgotten.

Thanks for your help!

So it seems my decision is on either I stick with my $63/month plan with 12GB peak and 54GB offpeak + keep my 2am-12pm OR,

pay $60/month + $10 plan change fee and get 30GB peak and an unutilised 'unmetered' period of 2am-8am.

Quite a difficult decision. I average around 30GB of download per month total. But that frequently ranges between 15GB - 40GB

Decisions decisions..

Tazz
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:05 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by Tazz » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:02 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
Tazz wrote:I have a memory of seeing somewhere that the max acceptable in the 2am-8am period was 50% of your quota, now I can't seem to find it again...
You might be confusing this for the shaping buffer.

The 2am-8am has no nominated limit. If you elect the shaping option, and use up more than 50% of your quota while shaped, you will be blocked for the remainder of the month (with the option to move to the next higher plan). This is alluded to on the pricing page under the AA plans but (according to forum posts) also applies to OT and ON plans.
This brings up more questions...

The shaping buffer has a max of 50% of your quota, and this is acceptable under the T&C etc, but if you download the extra 50% while shaped would you still be an economically viable customer?
If not, how much would be the limit and still remain an economically viable customer?

The uncounted period 2am-8am is not unlimited, but what is the limit? and where is it specified?

The reason I ask all the questions is that I am happy with Exetel, yes I do download more than the average Exetel user, but I want to be an economically viable customer.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Questions: Changing Plans

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:19 pm

Tazz wrote:The shaping buffer has a max of 50% of your quota, and this is acceptable under the T&C etc, but if you download the extra 50% while shaped would you still be an economically viable customer?
Yes. Anything more than 50% of your quota on a shaped buffer (and this would make sense only if applied to the nominated "peak" or 8am to 2am quota / usage) and you will be have to choose between termination or a permanent upgrade to the next highest plan in order to retain the viability.
Tazz wrote:The uncounted period 2am-8am is not unlimited, but what is the limit? and where is it specified?
There is no hard limit specified anywhere. The principle from the previous "Uncharged" plans was that up to, say, 3 times the average of other users is acceptable. Previously, with 12-12 limits, the average "off-peak" was about 30GB meaning if you kept your off-peak downloads to 90GB you'd be OK. With a shorter off-peak / unmetered period this amount might drop slightly,, so I reckon the acceptable usage limit would lie between 60GB (as for old INC2DSL, etc plans) and 90GB (as for old NF/ plans). So I reckon if you restrict your unmetered amount to about 75GB then allow another 50% shaping allowance you'd probably hit this upper acceptable limit of 90GB that was in place for old plans, and that this would be arguable to be "reasonable".
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

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