Unlimited P2P

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fester
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Tasmania

Post by fester » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:05 pm

12 gb peak
40 gb off peak
50 gb cache any time of day

total 102 gb
i would go that :D

DarkLotus
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:17 pm

Post by DarkLotus » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:28 pm

If the price point remains at around $10 for 50gb, ill be spending $20 a month more.

i wonder what the difficulty would be in having the usage metre update every 4-6hours? This would help with monitoring, the amount we hit.

Just thinking like this because you could chew through 12 or even 24gb peak data very quickly on an 8mbps plan accidentally.

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
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Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:18 pm

tocpcs wrote:That's what ForumAdmin said earlier, except a $10 price tag attached to it, and not a $15..

"Why pay more?".
No, the plan ForumAdmin is proposing doesn't guarantee cache hits. It says "download P2P at your own peril, if it hits the cache, the data adds to the 50Gb free cache limit, if not, it adds to either the peak or off-peak accordingly".

gong_guy is proposing a higher fee for the "risk" of downloading non-cached P2P traffic to be borne by Exetel.

tocpcs
Posts: 523
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Location: Online

Post by tocpcs » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:22 am

DarkLotus wrote:If the price point remains at around $10 for 50gb, ill be spending $20 a month more.

i wonder what the difficulty would be in having the usage metre update every 4-6hours? This would help with monitoring, the amount we hit.

Just thinking like this because you could chew through 12 or even 24gb peak data very quickly on an 8mbps plan accidentally.
I must agree here, one of the only minuses for us signing with Exetel in the last 2 weeks was the usage meter being slow at updating and they charge $3 a GB in excess usage.

I have great control over my usage, and $3 isn't much, but still would rather more frequent usage updates, espiecialy if this idea went ahead.

Spacer
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:26 pm

Post by Spacer » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:32 am

either that, or the ability to be shaped automatically once you hit the limit, instead of excess charges (maybe set it up so you can opt in or out of shaping, depending on whether you want to pay the excess fee but keep full speed, or get shaped and pay nothing)

I've always loved shaping over excess fee's, even tho the fee's are low shaping is a definitely selling point (even if its restricted to certain plans), though i would hazard a guess and say shaping *may* result in more bandwidth being used for exetel? since people would keep downloading at the slower speed rather than stop/pace them selves so they don't get charged tonnes

Might be a good thing to introduce later on if thats the case (and the extra useage would be too much for exetel atm)

Macko
Posts: 21
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Location: Binnaway

Post by Macko » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:34 am

Actually, the download scheduler is a good point. I use uTorrent as my client, and that allows me to set up two different "time zones" if you will. One where it runs at "full speed", and one where I can restrict the bandwidth. I just set it to run at a slower speed during peak time to avoid going over.

However, as has been previously stated, there would be no changes to current plans - so if you're otherwise happy with the one you're on, there's no absolute _need_ to change to the higher priced one if $10 a month is difficult for you.
True, and I don't even consider the $10 excessive per se. However the plan I had signed up for 2 years for in February was scrapped after 6 months and a new one implemented from Sept.1 for a $10 increase per month (to maintain my present rate) so this would be on top of that also. Hope the admins read this. One day they will also be pensioners and know what I mean.

dogwomble
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:21 am

Post by dogwomble » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:30 pm

Viss wrote:You have missed the whole point of my post
Not at all.

You want it, you pay for it. You don't get something for nothing any more. Deal.

It is well known, and documented in the contract that you agreed to when you signed up, that limits may be in force to ensure that P2P traffic doesn't affect other traffic. It's also discussed quite widely in the Exetel forums.

IMHO Exetel have been quite upfront in their dealings with P2P deprioritisation.

My previous ISP also took similar measures. I also have a suspicion that another of the largish ISP's (not Telstra, but one on a similar scale) also does this. I won't name them, only because I can't be 100% - as I said it's just a suspicion.

Exetel are now offering another method of dealing with this issue. BUT it comes at a price, because it involves purchasing potentially large amounts of extra bandwidth. With a cost to Exetel of potentially tens (possibly hundreds!) of thousands of dollars a month, I for one am not expecting them to pay for all of it. If I want to use this extra bandwidth, I expect to pay for it.

They are charging $10 a month. For most people on reasonable incomes, this is nothing. Plus from what I've read of the discussions, they are sweeting the deal by providing significantly higher download quotas.

While Exetel are in this situation right now, if I were with another ISP and they brought in similar measures, I would feel the same way.

While you're correct in saying that if you pay for the 8gb on peak, you should be able to use it, remember that anything higher than 1.5mbit is not guaranteed by any ISP. Also remember that, as mentioned, Exetel have advertised the fact that they have been throttling P2P traffic to ensure that it doesn't interfere with other traffic. Even if you didn't read the Terms and Conditions of the plan, you are still bound by them because by going through the sign up process you have indicated that you agree with them. So if you were to take Exetel to court over it, I would certainly be partying with the Exetel staff while watching the YouTube footage of their legal team leaving you high and dry!

crider
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 11:36 am

Post by crider » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:11 am

Some quick points, maybe I'll edit and expand later if possible.

Keep a single infrastructure, don't duplicate for P2P.

OffPeak Allowance to be a multiple of Peak Allowance, 4:1.
* Option to upgrade OffPeak Allowance to 8:1 for $10-$15.
OffPeak OverQuota becomes shaped speed based on service speed.

** P2P Cache content discounted by 75% from Peak/OffPeak Allowances.

* OverQuota Shaping
256 (64K), 512 (128K), 1500 (256K), 8192+ (512K)

Users select a P2P or HTTP profile for Enforcer rules.
Network Load has Green, Amber, Red ratings.
Enforcer has % rules for different user profiles and network loads.
Enforcer rules published for all to see.

* Network Loads
Network Load Red, very high load, heavy Enforcer rules in place.
Network Load Amber, high load, medium Enforcer rules in place.
Network Load Green, low load, light Enforcer rules in place

Implement HTTP Cache on shared infrastructure.
Implement P2P Cache on shared infrastructure.

Any investment benefits all users.
Surplus bandwidth becomes available to all.

* It's a bit unfair P2P users can dowload Gbs for a small fee.
HTTP content is cachable, example Windows/Office Updates.
50,000 users downloading 100Mb of Windows Updates = 5,000Gb
1,000 users downloading 5Gb P2P File = 5,000Gb
Which is cheaper for Exetel to provide?

* Edit 1
** Edit 2

BTW

I use both Exetel and AAnet.
AAnet is my personal connection at home, using cheap 8000/TR2.
AAnet cache HTTP content, it's quite noticeable.
Cached content from the likes of Microsoft saturates my connection.
Non cached content still quite respectable, say @ 70% throughput.
Last edited by crider on Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.

humski
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:46 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by humski » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:34 am

I'm quite interested indeed. Can't wait.

Spanner_Man

Post by Spanner_Man » Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:44 am

crider wrote:It's a bit unfair P2P users can dowload Gbs for a small fee while HTTP users will incurr excess fees, why not cache both P2P and HTTP.
I agree with your points except the one i quoted. P2P is the biggest network strain on any ISP with P2P being used to download a HUGE amount of data compared with ftp/http traffic. Besides most php based websites don't allow a cache system to store its page/images into a cache system.

TassieDevil
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:56 pm

Post by TassieDevil » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:19 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
Gothmog wrote:2) Since you are currently restricting P2P bandwidth at all times ("less" restrictions in non-peak times), when you say that you would expect speeds up to 3 times faster for P2P, is that 3 times faster than the UN-throttled P2P? Or 3 times faster than the current, throttled, P2P?

2) The speed of three times is based on retrieving from the caching solution versus retrieving from the other side of an ISP's network boundary (with no P2P restrictions).

However there is little point in speculating on some future event - the only sensible way to determine whether a caching solution will meet any individual's needs is to try it once it's available and then decide whether it is something that an individual customer might want to use.
Firstly, (and pls forgive me if I'm wrong about this)... it's possible that I may be out of touch a little and might have missed an official (?) announcement here on this forum, but since when have Exetel been prioritising P2P 24hrs a day ? Is it just me, or does ForumAdmin's answer IMPLY that P2P IS currently being prioritised during off-peak as well as peak time ? He (I'll use the descriptor "he" since Exetel won't positively identify who "ForumAdmin" is, so I understand) did not correct the original poster (as "he" often does, for clarification purposes) - usually the staff's remarks are very carefully presented. Was an announcement about this ever made ?

Secondly, when these new P2P plans are sorted and introduced, what will be the implications for all other standard plans (such as the ones we're all on now) ? Will the introduction of the new P2P plans mean any changes in the prioritising levels of the current plans ?

@Spacer - One of the reasons I chose Exetel was because they DO NOT shape connections once you've reached your limit. Why on earth folks would want to specifically pay significantly more for faster internet access (broadband vs dial-up, for example) and then have their speed limited to near dial-up speed once surpassing their download limit has always mystified me. It's understandable only in cases where

a) PPL new to broadband cannot anticipate what their broadband internet usage will be (once they know, they can change plans accordingly);
b) PPL are too lazy to monitor their usage; or
c) PPL don't know HOW to monitor their usage.

None of the above cases applied to me, although I'm certain they apply to others.

IMO the latter should be part of the T&C for every ISP - to sign up for a service U should need to learn how to monitor your usage, then for those who DO run up huge bills, it IS their fault. It might at least put an end to instances of case B anyways...

I agree with crider's suggestions regarding the Enforcer as well.
Last edited by TassieDevil on Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

thepigs2
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:40 am
Location: ACT

my opinion

Post by thepigs2 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:14 pm

thankyou for offering me the chance to voice my opinion.

is there any place where i can find the exact details of how exetel shapes my connection? i know you say 'everyone does it', but what is 'it' exactly, or is it a trade secret?

Without knowing this information it makes it hard for me to comment on the content of your email, because its like asking someone to comment on how long is a piece of string.

how would you quantitatively describe the shaping on my connection? let's assume the (geekier) exetel executive get a 100% service, how would you describe the shaping for your "value" customers. 10%-20%? will an extra $10 (and suggested 3x speed increase) take my service to 30% of a full speed service, or will it take me to 60%?. Adding some quantitative measures to your future emails would leave me less in the dark.

Once again thanking you for the opportunity to voice my opinion.

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 3663
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Location: Sydney

Re: my opinion

Post by ForumAdmin » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:48 pm

thepigs2 wrote:thankyou for offering me the chance to voice my opinion.

is there any place where i can find the exact details of how exetel shapes my connection? i know you say 'everyone does it', but what is 'it' exactly, or is it a trade secret?

Without knowing this information it makes it hard for me to comment on the content of your email, because its like asking someone to comment on how long is a piece of string.

how would you quantitatively describe the shaping on my connection? let's assume the (geekier) exetel executive get a 100% service, how would you describe the shaping for your "value" customers. 10%-20%? will an extra $10 (and suggested 3x speed increase) take my service to 30% of a full speed service, or will it take me to 60%?. Adding some quantitative measures to your future emails would leave me less in the dark.

Once again thanking you for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
Exetel has approximately 1.65 gbps of ingress/egress bandwidth for approximately 45,000 users.

You can work out from these two figures how Exetelprovisions bandwidth per user.

On balance, most Exetel users get the service they need/require most of the time they use the internet.

Very few people get less than the service they need/require at any time and of those that believe they don't get what they need/require the overwhelming majority are being dissatisfied by factors outside Exetel's control.

In other words there are no answers to the questions in your post other than your decision as to whether the Exetel provisioning policies (which unlike those of ALL other ISPs are available to you in real time in the User Facilities) meet your needs or not.

thepigs2
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:40 am
Location: ACT

Re: my opinion

Post by thepigs2 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:36 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
thepigs2 wrote:thankyou for offering me the chance to voice my opinion.

is there any place where i can find the exact details of how exetel shapes my connection? i know you say 'everyone does it', but what is 'it' exactly, or is it a trade secret?

Without knowing this information it makes it hard for me to comment on the content of your email, because its like asking someone to comment on how long is a piece of string.

how would you quantitatively describe the shaping on my connection? let's assume the (geekier) exetel executive get a 100% service, how would you describe the shaping for your "value" customers. 10%-20%? will an extra $10 (and suggested 3x speed increase) take my service to 30% of a full speed service, or will it take me to 60%?. Adding some quantitative measures to your future emails would leave me less in the dark.

Once again thanking you for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
Exetel has approximately 1.65 gbps of ingress/egress bandwidth for approximately 45,000 users.

You can work out from these two figures how Exetelprovisions bandwidth per user.

On balance, most Exetel users get the service they need/require most of the time they use the internet.

Very few people get less than the service they need/require at any time and of those that believe they don't get what they need/require the overwhelming majority are being dissatisfied by factors outside Exetel's control.

In other words there are no answers to the questions in your post other than your decision as to whether the Exetel provisioning policies (which unlike those of ALL other ISPs are available to you in real time in the User Facilities) meet your needs or not.
the numbers you posted indicates that your "value" service level guarantees no more than dial up speeds. so for $10 extra you're guaranteeing me 3x dial up speeds (15kb/s)? why would i upgrade? a cynical person would suspect its just a price increase.

edit: maybe you need the extra $10 a month to pay the loan on the over hyped "p2p cache". am i getting closer to the mark?

tocpcs
Posts: 523
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:01 am
Location: Online

Re: my opinion

Post by tocpcs » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:39 pm

thepigs2 wrote:
ForumAdmin wrote:
thepigs2 wrote:thankyou for offering me the chance to voice my opinion.

is there any place where i can find the exact details of how exetel shapes my connection? i know you say 'everyone does it', but what is 'it' exactly, or is it a trade secret?

Without knowing this information it makes it hard for me to comment on the content of your email, because its like asking someone to comment on how long is a piece of string.

how would you quantitatively describe the shaping on my connection? let's assume the (geekier) exetel executive get a 100% service, how would you describe the shaping for your "value" customers. 10%-20%? will an extra $10 (and suggested 3x speed increase) take my service to 30% of a full speed service, or will it take me to 60%?. Adding some quantitative measures to your future emails would leave me less in the dark.

Once again thanking you for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
Exetel has approximately 1.65 gbps of ingress/egress bandwidth for approximately 45,000 users.

You can work out from these two figures how Exetelprovisions bandwidth per user.

On balance, most Exetel users get the service they need/require most of the time they use the internet.

Very few people get less than the service they need/require at any time and of those that believe they don't get what they need/require the overwhelming majority are being dissatisfied by factors outside Exetel's control.

In other words there are no answers to the questions in your post other than your decision as to whether the Exetel provisioning policies (which unlike those of ALL other ISPs are available to you in real time in the User Facilities) meet your needs or not.
the numbers you posted indicates that your "value" service level guarantees no more than dial up speeds. so for $10 extra you're guaranteeing me 3x dial up speeds (15kb/s)? why would i upgrade? a cynical person would suspect its just a price increase.

edit: maybe you need the extra $10 a month to pay the loan on the over hyped "p2p cache". am i getting closer to the mark?
Do you think the entire customer base is online all at the same time, using their full quota at the same time?

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