Download speed and browsing issues, 8Mbps, Tasmania

Old, inactive threads
davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Download speed and browsing issues, 8Mbps, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:02 pm

Hi Exetel (and customers).

My problems began about two weeks ago. Everything was working tip-top before then. Other users who I have connected to Exetel service are also complaining of "horrible" internet performance over the same period.

Am having browsing issues with my connection at all times of the day and night. Pages often time out, but will load (quickly) after a number of refreshes. Transfer speeds, are less than usual... For example this afternoon I was downloading from debian.mirror.exetel.com.au at 300KBps (EDIT: 9:20pm averaging about 500KBps) .... Normally I would generally see above 600KBps and usually close to 800. Transfer speeds from outside Australia are generally slow. Pings look just fine... No appreciable packet loss if left going for longer periods.

I've followed all the stickies.

<flame suit on> It seems that the past couple of weeks the vibe has been for more issue of this type being reported, but no official comments / resolution.

--- whirlpool.net.au ping statistics ---
7 packets transmitted, 7 received, 0% packet loss, time 5999ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 66.522/68.304/70.836/1.583 ms

--- cf-in-f104.google.com ping statistics ---
8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7001ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 208.894/212.771/218.738/3.201 ms

--- facebook.com ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9000ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 216.602/219.789/224.688/2.441 ms


traceroute to google.com (64.233.167.99), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 home.gateway (192.168.1.254) 4.447 ms 4.396 ms 4.386 ms
2 121.1.233.220.exetel.com.au (220.233.1.121) 56.359 ms 57.959 ms 59.659 ms
3 254.0.233.220.exetel.com.au (220.233.0.254) 246.296 ms 246.695 ms 246.686 ms
4 Vlan366.O2GSC76F03.optus.net.au (203.202.84.65) 69.824 ms 71.452 ms 73.622 ms
5 203.208.149.130 (203.208.149.130) 233.637 ms 234.982 ms 238.442 ms
6 209.85.253.178 (209.85.253.178) 240.535 ms 227.023 ms 228.995 ms
7 209.85.251.35 (209.85.251.35) 234.297 ms 218.609 ms 220.763 ms
8 72.14.236.10 (72.14.236.10) 226.017 ms 72.14.236.8 (72.14.236.8) 221.370 ms 223.392 ms
9 64.233.174.81 (64.233.174.81) 270.088 ms 254.117 ms 254.512 ms
10 66.249.94.133 (66.249.94.133) 266.885 ms 264.421 ms 262.475 ms
11 64.233.175.42 (64.233.175.42) 260.690 ms 257.718 ms 264.354 ms
12 py-in-f99.google.com (64.233.167.99) 267.040 ms 269.839 ms 267.495 ms

traceroute to facebook.com (69.63.176.11), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 home.gateway (192.168.1.254) 4.398 ms 4.362 ms 4.554 ms
2 121.1.233.220.exetel.com.au (220.233.1.121) 55.495 ms 58.296 ms 61.510 ms
3 254.0.233.220.exetel.com.au (220.233.0.254) 63.598 ms 64.435 ms 68.929 ms
4 10.0.1.1 (10.0.1.1) 76.956 ms 77.155 ms 77.443 ms
5 359-ge-0-0-0.GW5.SYD2.ALTER.NET (203.166.92.57) 76.925 ms 80.632 ms 85.057 ms
6 0.so-0-2-0.XT1.SYD2.ALTER.NET (210.80.33.189) 88.879 ms 73.019 ms 75.483 ms
7 0.so-5-1-0.IR1.LAX12.ALTER.NET (210.80.49.2) 243.318 ms 215.052 ms 217.625 ms
8 0.so-5-0-0.IL1.LAX9.ALTER.NET (152.63.48.65) 220.680 ms 222.027 ms 224.196 ms
9 0.so-7-0-0.XT1.LAX7.ALTER.NET (152.63.116.249) 229.033 ms 232.310 ms 233.277 ms
10 0.so-6-0-0.BR1.LAX7.ALTER.NET (152.63.112.41) 235.408 ms 235.970 ms 237.198 ms
11 204.255.169.154 (204.255.169.154) 241.727 ms 243.091 ms 245.040 ms
12 as-0.r21.snjsca04.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.96) 251.594 ms 219.053 ms 221.308 ms
13 ae-0.r20.plalca01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.118) 220.033 ms 224.012 ms 224.839 ms
14 xe-4-4.r04.plalca01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.242) 225.120 ms 225.352 ms 230.960 ms
15 * * *
16 * * *
17 * * *

traceroute to whirlpool.net.au (203.147.133.62), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 home.gateway (192.168.1.254) 4.374 ms 4.334 ms 4.324 ms
2 121.1.233.220.exetel.com.au (220.233.1.121) 57.306 ms 58.156 ms 60.398 ms
3 254.0.233.220.exetel.com.au (220.233.0.254) 69.072 ms 71.423 ms 72.882 ms
4 10.0.1.1 (10.0.1.1) 73.978 ms 74.841 ms 77.521 ms
5 359-ge-0-0-0.GW5.SYD2.ALTER.NET (203.166.92.57) 78.122 ms 79.234 ms 80.938 ms
6 so-6-2-0.XT1.SYD2.ALTER.NET (210.80.38.221) 84.513 ms 69.552 ms 72.250 ms
7 So-0-0-0.XR1.BNE1.ALTER.NET (210.80.33.2) 94.754 ms 67.528 ms 117.872 ms
8 11.so-3-0-0.GW3.BNE1.ALTER.NET (210.80.32.106) 76.000 ms 78.369 ms 81.264 ms
9 webcentral1-bne-gw.aspac.customer.alter.net (203.166.92.74) 84.085 ms 85.203 ms 86.871 ms
10 vl5.mls1.wic.server-noc.com (203.147.255.105) 88.482 ms 90.621 ms 94.461 ms
11 wic221d.server-web.com (203.147.133.62) 96.825 ms 97.207 ms 99.396 ms

David_h
Exetel Staff
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:20 am

Post by David_h » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:41 am

Would you please get some speed test results from the following website and post the result

www.ozspeedtest.com -> bandwidth test -> exetel mirror

Do this test about 3 times with the 3mb test.
-David

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Download speed and browsing issues, 8Mbps, Tasmania

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:17 am

davewantsmoore wrote:Hi Exetel (and customers).
Other users who I have connected to Exetel service are also complaining of "horrible" internet performance over the same period.
...
Transfer speeds, are less than usual... For example this afternoon I was downloading from debian.mirror.exetel.com.au at 300KBps (EDIT: 9:20pm averaging about 500KBps) .... Normally I would generally see above 600KBps and usually close to 800. Transfer speeds from outside Australia are generally slow
Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but I wouldn't really consider 300-500KB/s to be "horrible" performance. Even relative to your 600-800KB/s these speeds could easily just be general fluctuations. And international transfer speeds are outside of Exetel's control, aren't they?
David_h wrote:www.ozspeedtest.com -> bandwidth test -> exetel mirror
How come the recommended speed tests keeps alternating between speed test sites (www.ozspeedtest.com and speedtest.net) and "real-life" downloads (www.microsoft.com, www.apple.com, etc)?

davewantsmoore, you probably want to try a few different speed tests anyway. Possibly cite the download speeds from a random microsoft.com download, or ideally, the combined download speeds from up to 3 simultaneous downloads from microsoft, apple, nvidia, etc. However, if you can consistently get 300-500KB/s through Exetel's mirror, then I don't think that your connection will be considered as having any speed issues.

outbush
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:49 am

Re: Download speed and browsing issues, 8Mbps, Tasmania

Post by outbush » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:58 pm

davewantsmoore wrote:Hi Exetel (and customers).

My problems began about two weeks ago.
Am having browsing issues with my connection at all times of the day and night.
Transfer speeds, are less than usual...

traceroute to google.com (64.233.167.99), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 home.gateway (192.168.1.254) 4.447 ms 4.396 ms 4.386 ms

I think the first thing you should look at is your home equipment and connection.
The tracert above is not acceptable 4.447 ms
Your first hop to your router should be 1 ms

My results show:
Tracing route to py-in-f99.google.com [64.233.167.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
*
*
13 242 ms 245 ms 242 ms py-in-f99.google.com [64.233.167.99]

Notice how my first hop is <1 ms

davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Re: Download speed and browsing issues, 8Mbps, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:03 pm

David_h wrote:Would you please get some speed test results from the following website and post the result
Sure thing. I should have said, I'd already been testing using the speed test.

Just now:
Test run on 01/11/2007 @ 01:46 PM
Mirror: Exetel Data: 3 MB Test Time: 9.51 secs
Your line speed is 2.58 Mbps (2577 kbps).
Your download speed is 322 KB/s (0.31 MB/s)

Last night:
9M test was giving anywhere between 2 and 6Mbps... Avg about 5Mbps.

CoreyPlover wrote:Stuff...
The "horrible performance" quote is the way other customers have recently described their internet experience... They generally mean is pages often don't load, and downloads timeout. These are non-technical users.

I used to get 800KBps from mirror.exetel .... now I get much less. I'm not referring to international traffic here. Just the mirror.

My gripe is not SO much with transfer speeds... it is with pages not loading and file downloads timing out... It makes the connection frustrating to use. This is the same situation my associates have complained of specifically over the past 2 weeks.

The reason I raised the difference in speeds to mirror.exetel was not so much to complain about the slower speed... but to simply point out that there has been a change.

Transfer Tests:

gentoo.ussg.indiana.edu
ftp.microsoft.com
ftp.apple.com

Each download (3 at once) hovered between 50 and 150KBps... for example:

14:29:56 (115.90 KB/s) - `30SP3IS.EXE.1' saved [22713856]

A single download from one of these hosts also hovered between 50 and 150KBps.

This is not really too bad, it's a little slower than the past few months, but okay. Again the MAIN problem is with traffic timing out. Right now pages from facebook.com, anz.com, waste.uk.com, utas.edu.au, mail.google.com and GoogleEarth are timing out occasionally... they will often load after a number of refreshes.

I've (just now) reduced the MTU on my modem to 576 ... but things like PMTUd ... and the "it was working before" factor... should mean this won't help.
CoreyPlover wrote:And international transfer speeds are outside of Exetel's control, aren't they?
HAHA... Well... No. Exetel rely on 3rd parties. But in the majority of cases the choice of 3rd party, and the service they purchase from said 3rd party is quite optional.

but also, Yes.... Exetel does not have direct control over 3rd party networks, and therefore cannot improve performance, or fix "faults" directly.

Disclaimer: In a previous life I worked for a few years as a tech for an ISP

davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Re: Download speed and browsing issues, 8Mbps, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 pm

outbush wrote:The tracert above is not acceptable 4.447 ms
Your first hop to your router should be 1 ms
Sorry... My modem is also acts as a router for a segment of my network... Local traffic (home theater PC) would have been causing the degradation in latency.

Do you really think 4ms is "unacceptable" ?!? :-p

Tested just now:

--- home.gateway ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 11 received, 0% packet loss, time 10000ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.422/0.431/0.462/0.029 ms

David_h
Exetel Staff
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:20 am

Post by David_h » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:33 pm

OK, anything above 1.5mbps is considered acceptable for the connection. the latency looks fine in the trace route too.

If you pm me the service number and a link to this thread I'll have a better look at the connection.
-David

davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:57 pm

David_h wrote:OK, anything above 1.5mbps is considered acceptable for the connection.
I understand this. The transfer speeds are not my primary concern... just quoting them to indicate that things have recently changed.

I have also set my WAN MTU to 576... pages are still timing out. Not all the time... Just every now and again. Some sites seem much worse than others.

PM sent. All help much appreciated.

CLoSeR
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:49 pm
Location: West Ryde, NSW
Contact:

Post by CLoSeR » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:35 pm

MTU should be set much higher, try 1400 instead.

CLoSeR
Need to log a fault ticket? Go here: https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au/

davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:38 pm

CLoSeR wrote:MTU should be set much higher, try 1400 instead.

CLoSeR
I had it set at 1500 (PPPoA)

I have reduced it to 576 (a common MTU in older networks) in case PMTUd is not working correctly "out there" somewhere.

I can set it back up to 1400... but I do not understand how setting it at anything but "extremely low" would help with troubleshooting ??!? Can you explain?

davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:44 pm

Actually... I'd like to talk about this if I may... excuse the off-topic (ish)

I DO understand that a SYNC speed >= 1536/256 kbps is acceptable... and that this is because lines are qualified by Telstra to be able to sync at 1536/256 (g.lite)

So if my modem was only syncing at 2Mbps down... then fine... this is acceptable, and not in control of Exetel in any case.

But why is a transfer speed >= 1536kbps considered acceptable ??? ... Can I have a little more explanation.

I do appreciate there are many factors affecting transfer speed, 3rd party networks being the major one... and I'm cool with that.

It just feels like the concept of line sync speed... and actual transfer speed... are being confused.


Sorry to be a pain. Please take this to PM is that is more appropriate.

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:45 pm

Yeah. Page timeouts are often an MTU issue. I don't know whether there is an optimal MTU setting and would have guessed that setting lower MTU will degrade performance, but will successfully diagnose page time outs (i.e. if pages still time out at MTU of 576, then they will continue to time out at 1400)

Other cause could be modem firmware. I used to get heap of timeouts for AJAX related authentication pages (Gmail, Hotmail) before I upgraded my firmware. I thought it was an MTU setting that I had stuffed up. More specifically it was resolved by a firmware downgrade to the most recent stable release. Some sort of beta firmware was pre-loaded onto my modem.

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:52 pm

davewantsmoore wrote:But why is a transfer speed >= 1536kbps considered acceptable ??? ... Can I have a little more explanation.
True. I assume you are thinking of the following scenarios:
* Sync at something like 8Mbps, download at less than 1.5Mbps; vs
* Sync at 8Mbps, download at about 2Mbps

i.e. Why should one deserve a line fault and the other not. Clearly the line is not at fault (as it is syncing high) there must be something else at play (server congestion, speed fluctuations, etc).

I suspect that these cases still have the capacity to also identify faults at the exchange and hence a line fault is still useful. For example, current incidents of dial-up broadband speeds on high sync connections that are being traced to continuing Optus exchange maintenance.

davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:06 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:Yeah. Page timeouts are often an MTU issue.
Well... "optimal" MTU is as high as possible for the network you are traversing. However packet size is automatically adjusted (down)... unless the required ICMP packets to facilitate this are blocked somewhere.

Lowering MTU does not _really_ hurt performance as MUCH people sometimes think.

Page timeouts being OFTEN an MTU issue I think is a misconception. Google will dig you up a lot of old posts of people on early DSL/cable networks where the providers network could not swallow packets of a certain size, and for some reason PMTUD would not fix.

These days, if a network cannot accept a standard Ethernet packet size (1500bytes), and for some reason it does not PMTUD, for example by blocking the required ICMP packets.... then a very, very, very large number of hosts would not be able to talk to that network.

Sure if you provider says, you must set MTU at 1436, 576, or whatever because that's what OUR infrastructure requires... then that's normal.... but to say there is some (random) network out there somewhere that is dropping everything above a certain (1500=common) packet size, is quite unlikely.

Now I sound like I'm giving a networking lecture... and taking this waaay off topic too. :-D
Last edited by davewantsmoore on Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

davewantsmoore
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Post by davewantsmoore » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:13 pm

CoreyPlover wrote: True. I assume you are thinking of the following scenarios:
Kind of.

I UNDERSTAND that whatever my SYNC is, as long as it's greater than 1.5M, then it is acceptable. Nobody can make any guarantees above 1.5M for line sync.


I don't really understand why Exetel make no guarantees of TRANSFER speeds above 1.5M (assuming you are sync'd at a higher speed)

I am not so much complaining that this is the case.... just looking for a bit of justification.

(I am on a Telstra line by the way - Bathurst St Exch - Hobart)

Post Reply