UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

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basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:09 pm

Well I have now discovered that by attempting to dial out, the modem then becomes unavailable (unable to ping or login to it) and thus requires power-cycle to restore it again.

I'm tempted to take a large heavy implement to everything on this desk because of the amount of stress this is causing me!

Gidget
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by Gidget » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:26 pm

Before you throw the lot out of the window and attempt to follow it, can I suggest that you try to simplify your equipment setup as much as possible. Once you get it as simple as possible (only one computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R etc) and get it working in that mode, you can start adding in the other complexities and hopefully work out where it all starts to go awry. Don't forget to document as you go :D

Cheers

Gidget
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basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:47 pm

Well I tried calling out again and this time the modem didn't complain... Strange...

I turned off DHCP in the P2302R and there doesn't appear to be any change (still get the same engaged tone after 8 seconds).

I figured out how to set up static IP addresses in the 741GE (I had to turn off "use default range" before adding "fixed host" yet all three devices (2 computers and the P2302R) are still listed as "not static" in the 741GE ARP table. Am I required to restart the modem to get it to re-address them as static instead of dynamic?

Gidget, I never had any computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R - or am I misundertstanding your interpretation of "only one computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R". As I said before, the P2302R is connected (via it's WAN port) to the LAN port of the 741GE.


There aren't any complexities that I can tell - I followed the VOIP instructions to the letter, yet still am unable to make or receive a call. I just turned the modem firewall off again to prove my port-forwarding is working, and I still can't make a call out.

Gidget
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by Gidget » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:01 pm

basshead wrote:... Gidget, I never had any computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R - or am I misundertstanding your interpretation of "only one computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R". As I said before, the P2302R is connected (via it's WAN port) to the LAN port of the 741GE. There aren't any complexities that I can tell ...
Sorry if I didn't explain myself clearly enough. My point is that when doing troubleshooting it is a good idea to reduce complexity in the setup as much as possible, as your starting point. In you case, you have the P2302R is connected (via it's WAN port) to the LAN port of the 741GE. This is complex - two separate pieces of equipment that your VOIP setup has to navigate. I am not familiar with your equipment, but if it is possible to take the 741GE out of the equation (or the P2302R instead) and see if you can get it working with only one piece of equipment you might be able to better determine whether it is one of the bits of equipment, or the interface between them, which is the culprit.

Gidget
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outbush
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by outbush » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:11 pm

basshead wrote:Gidget, I never had any computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R - or am I misundertstanding your interpretation of "only one computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R". As I said before, the P2302R is connected (via it's WAN port) to the LAN port of the 741GE.
The interpretation here is to keep your system simple.
basshead wrote:There aren't any complexities that I can tell - ..........
There are. You have two NAT routers connected together and until you can get them talking to one another and your VSP, voip will not work for you.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:13 pm

I have always used the 741GE as my adsl modem/router, and recently bought the P2302R as an ATA, which is all I thought it was, but after using it, it has similar features to my modem, making me think it might also be a modem, however the user manual states that a modem is still required for it to be able to connect to the internet. So if that is the case, there is no way I can simplify this setup in any way, except for unplugging one of the computers, which as I mentioned just a moment ago, would probably make no difference as the VOIP doesn't go through the computer. I'd need to have at least one computer connected anyway so I could acess the modem and ATA settings.


Looks like I'll have to start absolutely everything from scratch, including resetting my modem to factory defaults and re-entering exetel adsl settings, then the same for the ATA. If that fails, I will have to lodge an exetel ticket, or worst case - get an expert in to set it all up for me (which to me seems to be a fairly simple task, however as usual for me, following the simple instructions never seems to work, and I always end up wasting hours and hours of my time, and plenty of other people's time that are kind enough to try and help me).

outbush
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by outbush » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:15 pm

Gidget wrote:Before you throw the lot out of the window and attempt to follow it, can I suggest that you try to simplify your equipment setup as much as possible. Once you get it as simple as possible (only one computer connected to the LAN port of the P2302R etc) and get it working in that mode, you can start adding in the other complexities and hopefully work out where it all starts to go awry. Don't forget to document as you go
I agree to keep it simple, but in this case the P2302R is not an ADSL modem and the situation gets complicated.
Also the 741GE does not have voip capabilities

Gidget
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by Gidget » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:21 pm

I see - fools rush in where angels fear to tread :oops:

Sorry to offer a suggestion that won't work for you basshead (no matter how sensible the advice might be in other contexts).

Good luck with your further investigations!

Gidget
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Gidget
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by Gidget » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:29 pm

As a final thought ... I used to have a Netcomm V300 (ATA) connected to my ADSL modem. Two NAT routers connected together, as in your case. I spent some time trying to get them working together with my computers connected to my modem. Eventually, I gave up, left DHCP at default settings (on) in both, connected the computers to the ATA instead of the modem, and everything worked. The port forwarding was done in the ATA from memory.

It might not have been optimal, and cause the purists to be horrified, but at least it worked :D

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
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basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:34 pm

basshead wrote:There aren't any complexities that I can tell - ..........
There are. You have two NAT routers connected together and until you can get them talking to one another and your VSP, voip will not work for you.
I don't have "Use NAT" ticked in the VOIP Advanced settings in the P2302R. Is there another NAT setting somewhere else in the P2302R?

As Gidget said earlier, I need to document everything, and basically I will need to start from scratch to do this properly.

I could try connecting the PC to the LAN port of the P2302R, but I don't see how that will change anything, but if it worked for one, it might work also for me. Only problem here is that there is only one LAN port on the P2302R, and I have two computers. Starting from minimalist setup, I could try with one computer and see how it goes. But wouldn't there still be two NAT routers anyway?


I've just been going around in circles with all these other changes I've been trying, so I need to try something different!

Perhaps I should've bought a Linksys PAP2NA ATA instead of the Zyxel...

stevebow
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:03 am

outbush wrote:When in bridge mode did you have an internet connection through the LAN of the P2302R? I think your problem lies in your networking setup, as the SIP signal cannot get through the two routers you have connected together.
I agree with this. What you have purchased is actually a router which happens to have an ATA built in. So connecting the WAN port of your Zyxel to a LAN port of your Billion, also a router, is going to be problematic.

The question, is, whether the Zyxel can be configured to be a plain ATA and have it's router disabled. I'll download the user manual and have a read through.

Edit: heck, it's 384 pages long! I'd best put the kettle on I think...

stevebow
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:25 am

I may have found something. Take a look at section 7.4 of the manual as well as related sections. I'm wondering if the Zyxel is sending it's private IP address to the SIP server when registering itself instead of your Exetel assigned Public IP address.

Also, is your Zyxel's WAN port configured as a regular Ethernet port? It may be set up as PPPoE (by default), which is not what you want. Ref. section 3.3.1.


As has been suggested, I really suggest you set up you network's IP addresses as static. With DHCP out of the equation, yet another potential problem source is eliminated.

Ok, firstly connect only your PC to a LAN port of the Billion and disconnect everything else. I would also reset your Billion to factory default - not that it may need it, but at least we can start off in a known state - you never know, there could be an odd setting somewhere messing things up.

Set your PC's ethernet port to a static IP address by opening the properties of your ethernet "Local Area Connection". In Vista, it's accessible via the Network and Sharing Center control panel. I can't remember where it was under XP, sorry. Anyway, in the properties list that appears, double-click the "Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4)" item. Then make sure "Use the following IP address:" is selected. The "Obtain an IP address automatically" mode means to use a local DHCP server (usually in your router) to assign an IP address to the PC's network port (ethernet in this case) automatically - which can change on you at any time, making later diagnostics eg. pinging, difficult! Enter:

IP address: 192.168.1.10
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
Default gateway: 192.168.1.254 <- your Billion router

The same for the DNS servers, make sure "Use the following DNS server addresses:" is enabled with the following entries (these are Exetel's DNS servers):

Preferred DNS server: 220.233.0.4
Alternate DNS serve: 220.233.0.3

Disable the DHCP server in the Billion as we are going static: Configuration->LAN->DHCP Server->Disable. Click Save Configuration to Flash->Save.

To confirm the LAN is working, in the Windows Start menu, click on "Run...". In the window, type cmd then enter. This will open a CLI. Type "ping 192.168.1.254". You should see something like:

Pinging 192.168.1.254 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

By this stage you can configure the Billion with your web browser. Connect your phone line and configure your Exetel details via Quick Start. The Billion by default uses the PPPoE protocol on its WAN (ADSL) port, which is fine. I guess when you click Apply the Billion goes online, unfortunately the manual's not clear on that. Click Save Configuration to Flash->Save.

In the PC's CLI, type "ping -t 220.233.0.9". As soon as you're online you will get a response. CTL+C to stop pinging. Check DNS functionality with "ping exetel.com.au". You should also get a response, all being well.

Ok, so that's it - a very basic starting point using static IP addresses.

Next, your Amiga. Your Amiga will also have to be configured with a static IP Address and this time we will give it 192.168.1.20. IIRC, you are using Miami (TCP/IP stack)? It's been years since I've used Miami (as I use OS4's Roadshow now of course) so I will need to read the Guide for Miami to refresh. Which I'll do tomorrow, as my Ami's switched off ATM and the kettle's long cold and I am about to drop off to sleep in any case. :)

Let me know if there's anything you don't understand!

To be continued.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:24 am

Steve, that all makes sense so far. My IP address was already set as static in the PC, just as you described (however it was 192.168.1.4, which isn't an issue) and as far as I know, there isn't a DHCP server option in MiamiDX, and I have the Amiga set up as 192.168.1.1. I changed the P2302R IP address to 192.168.1.2 (from 1.1) but by starting your instructions from scratch I will avoid having to reassign an IP address to the P2302R.

I couldn't access the pdf file on the CD that came with the Zyxel, however I did find a "support notes" pdf (v3.6, dated October 2007, 150 pages) from their website and the user manual on their website appears to be blank (I might have a problem with my Acrobat Reader; a restart of WinXP might solve that).

I hope to get a chance to reset the modem and ATA and changing settings as per your instructions this afternoon.

outbush
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by outbush » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:03 am

basshead wrote:Steve, ..............................I hope to get a chance to reset the modem and ATA and changing settings as per your instructions this afternoon.
Good to hear you are progressing with your network.
Here is a link to the users manual if it helps:
ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/P-2302R/user_guide/ ... 0MM_MQ.pdf

stevebow
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:37 pm

basshead wrote:Steve, that all makes sense so far. My IP address was already set as static in the PC, just as you described (however it was 192.168.1.4, which isn't an issue) and as far as I know, there isn't a DHCP server option in MiamiDX, and I have the Amiga set up as 192.168.1.1. I changed the P2302R IP address to 192.168.1.2 (from 1.1) but by starting your instructions from scratch I will avoid having to reassign an IP address to the P2302R.
I only ever used the "regular" Miami and I know there wasn't a DHCP server in that, but IIRC the Deluxe version didn't have one either.

I managed to get Miami running under OS4 with a little fiddling. Hoping the config pages are the same for both Miami versions, check the following settings to ensure your Amiga is set up statically. Delete/rename your existing Miami prefs file to ensure a clean start.

Interface->SANA-II Configuration

IP Type: static
Netmask Type: static
Gateway Type: static
Multicasts: disabled
IP address: 192.168.1.20
Netmask: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.254

TCP/IP

Use DHCP: off

Database->DNS Servers
Ensure there are only 2 entries
220.233.0.4
220.233.0.3


By the way, do everything as I describe it eg. resetting Billion, PC IP address = 192.168.1.10, etc. Don't just check your settings and see that they seem to be alright . This way we stay in sync. When it all works, then you can fiddle. BTW, don't use 192.168.1.1 as as address. Often this is a default address for routers/printers/etc. If you buy something new to add to your network in the future you would get an address conflict and wonder why this new device won't work.

It would be a good idea to document as you go. At the very least, draw up a network map of your LAN, noting connections and IP addresses.

Connect your Amiga to another LAN port of the Billion and try to ping it with miamiping:

12.SYSTEM:Internet/Miami> miamiping 192.168.1.254
PING 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.1.254: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=11.792 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.254: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=2.249 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.254: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=2.121 ms

As with the PC, try to ping an Exetel host in the Internet (220.233.0.9). This confirms Internet connectivity. If that works, ping it by its host name (exetel.com.au). This will confirm your Amiga's DNS settings.

Now, to be absolutely sure, on the Amiga ping your PC (192.168.1.10) and on your PC ping the Amiga (192.168.1.20).

At this stage, your Billion router, your PC and Amiga will be all set up statically and all able to talk to each other.

Use ping often when you suspect any network problems, it is a fundamental troubleshooting tool. As you can imagine, if you LAN's IPs are assigned dynamically it will be difficult to ping a host when you are uncertain what its IP address is at any given point in time will be!

When you get to this stage, we can move on to connecting and configuring the Zyxel, also a port will need to be forwarded to the Zyxel in your BIllion.
I couldn't access the pdf file on the CD that came with the Zyxel, however I did find a "support notes" pdf (v3.6, dated October 2007, 150 pages) from their website and the user manual on their website appears to be blank (I might have a problem with my Acrobat Reader; a restart of WinXP might solve that).

I hope to get a chance to reset the modem and ATA and changing settings as per your instructions this afternoon.
Ah, you don't have the manual. Then I'm thinking your Zyxel may well be sending it's private IP (192.168.1.xxx) to the SIP server instead of your public IP (220.233.xxx.xxx). Obviuosly I won't need to tell you the save the pdf outbush linked to in his post above. :) We'll tackle the Zyxel next.

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