UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

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stevebow
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:32 pm

Rich, I think the Zyxel will be fine. The "data path" of the built-in VOIP ATA is likely via the WAN port - after all, that's the direction to the internet. By default the WAN port is configured as a PPPoE port - you have actually purchased another router with a VOIP ATA, and not just a plain vanilla ATA. This complicates things a little but I believe from what I have read in the Zyxel manual it will work in your LAN as a VOIP ATA. The Zyxel WAN port will have to be configured as a plain ethernet port instead of the default PPPoE. But it may be you can only configure it via the LAN port, that I'm not sure about.

Can I suggest you download the correct manual (the link in my previous post), sit down and read through it this weekend. Be aware the the router facilities of the Zyxel will not be used (your Billion is the router on your LAN), just the built-in VOIP ATA.

You know, another possibility is to ditch the Billion altogether and use the Zyxel router in its place. But the Zyxel only has a single LAN port so you would have to add an ethernet swicth/hub to allow you to connect both your Amiga and PC (and anything else) to it.

VOIP issues aside, I am still concerned you cannot ping your PC from your Amiga with your static IP configuration. This is pointing to a problem somewhere on your PC - and who knows what else? I'm not entirely unconvinced Norton360 hasn't messed up your PC's networking somewhere. I strongly recommend this is sorted before proceeding with the Zyxel. I can only think of re-installing Windows as a solution for this, which will if nothing else clean out your system.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:26 pm

I changed to the LAN port of the P2302R and that had no effect...



I don't know if what I am about to say is of any help, or just make the situation more confusing!

A short while ago I saved my current billion modem settings to a file on the PC, then re-loaded my old settings from earlier in the week (as I had saved them to the PC before resetting the modem to factory settings). Now I can access the P2302R again! Remember the old settings in the modem previously had DHCP active, and I had to change the fixed IP addresses for each computer and the ATA as I had changed the PC & Amiga due to Steve's tutorial.

I can now load the config page of the P2302R from both the Amiga and the PC (using the old modem config), however I didn't bother changing any settings in it. The main thing I know now is that it is not fried!

I then re-loaded the "steve's walk-through" config which I just saved a short while ago (with DHCP off etc). Now I can't access the P2302R again!


Strange!
Last edited by basshead on Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:33 pm

outbush wrote: You mean you bought an item on EBay that you know nothing about.
I think you deserve what you got, a product that doesn't suit your needs, difficult to configure, no product support and possibly 'locked' to some ISP/VSP company.
If you had purchased an interegated product from a reputable supplier you would have support and be up and running by now.

I bought an item on eBay that I researched prior to buying. I was not aware that having the extra features (which I wouldn't need anyway) would cause so much hassle. It's not the first time I've bought from eBay and not been able to use the device as I intended (other items were a well-known brand-name GPS, and another was PDA GPS software which failed to run correctly, even though it also comes bundled with the PDA I own!). You would think I would've learnt the first time! I already mentioned earlier in this thread that I should've just bought the Linksys ATA, which probably wouldn't have given me any problems at all!

stevebow wrote: VOIP issues aside, I am still concerned you cannot ping your PC from your Amiga with your static IP configuration. This is pointing to a problem somewhere on your PC - and who knows what else? I'm not entirely unconvinced Norton360 hasn't messed up your PC's networking somewhere. I strongly recommend this is sorted before proceeding with the Zyxel. I can only think of re-installing Windows as a solution for this, which will if nothing else clean out your system.
I would prefer to install WinXP onto a separate hard drive, and I can already invisage a problem with that as I have grub bootloader installed and fear I would corrupt it trying to install WinXP again. I dread installing WinXP onto the same hard drive it's already on, as I am sure it would overwrite or corrupt any installed programs and I would lose the lot (that's assuming the drive doesn't need to be formatted first!). Installing it onto another drive would still allow me to access all the various programs I have already installed until I have the time to spend (days?) reinstalling everything again. I did have Win98 originally, and when I installed WinXP it automatically created a dual-boot menu. Much more recently I have installed grub (to boot another OS), and fear what would happen if I tried to reinstall WinXP onto the system (I don't even know if it's possible to have two XP versions installed on the same computer; legally I don't think it's an issue, as I'd only be using one "copy" at a time, however the Microsloth "Windows Authentication" system may disagree, and think an unauthorised copy has been installed on the computer).
stevebow wrote: You know, another possibility is to ditch the Billion altogether and use the Zyxel router in its place. But the Zyxel only has a single LAN port so you would have to add an ethernet swicth/hub to allow you to connect both your Amiga and PC (and anything else) to it.
This has already been mentioned and not feasible as the P2302R does not have adsl/modem capabilities :)


On a slightly off-topic (hasn't this whole thread gone off-topic :) ) I am amazed at how much quicker WinXP is now that Norton360 is gone!

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:50 pm

Well I've read through the user manual and I'm none the wiser, and my brain hurts.

I forgot to mention the other day that when I called my DID# from a landline, it went straight to voicemail. Now when I call my DID# from landline, after about 20-30 seconds of nothing, I get what sounds like an engaged signal, only it's twice as fast. The PWR/VOIP LED on the ATA is orange (ie: SIP Registered).

I've searched for "voip engaged" on these forums and read all the old threads that came up (some from as far back as 2004!) and unfortunately other forum users have had similar experiences to me, (although with different equipment) yet alot of them don't state what it was that solved their problem...

Some more questions:

Do I need to enter PROXY settings in the P2302R?
Do I need to enter STUN settings?
Am I supposed to forward RIP ports in the modem? Do I still need to do that if the firewall is turned off anyway?

outbush
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by outbush » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:32 am

basshead wrote:Well I've read through the user manual and I'm none the wiser, and my brain hurts.
Its interesting what other posters say:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... 1030184#r2
P 2302R for less than $15,

Simple to setup, ............set and forget

No problems, no complaints

stevebow
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Location: Sydney

Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:58 pm

basshead wrote:A short while ago I saved my current billion modem settings to a file on the PC, then re-loaded my old settings from earlier in the week (as I had saved them to the PC before resetting the modem to factory settings). Now I can access the P2302R again! Remember the old settings in the modem previously had DHCP active, and I had to change the fixed IP addresses for each computer and the ATA as I had changed the PC & Amiga due to Steve's tutorial.
My guess is that by default the Zyxel has its DCHP client active by default so when it finds a DHCP server on the LAN (you have just said the old Billion settings had DCHP active, I trust you mean a DHCP server and not client) it asks for and gets an IP address, so naturally it will seem to work. But is will eventually be configured with a static IP. That you cannot ping it with a static all-round setup possibly means you are pinging the wrong IP address.

I know you are keen to get VOIP up and running :) but I think it would help to remain focussed for now on the problem of not being able to ping your PC from your Amiga, which could indicate a networking issue that ought to be resolved first.
I would prefer to install WinXP onto a separate hard drive, and I can already invisage a problem with that as I have grub bootloader installed and fear I would corrupt it trying to install WinXP again.
[...]
However you do it, I suspect a fresh install will solve your PC pinging problem. You mentioned earlier you were using Acrobat Read V4. That is, like, way old. I'm wondering what else you might have that is very out of date that could affect things. Would it be worth taking a step back for now, doing a fresh install/clean-out and getting applications and drivers up-to-date?
stevebow wrote:You know, another possibility is to ditch the Billion altogether and use the Zyxel router in its place. But the Zyxel only has a single LAN port so you would have to add an ethernet swicth/hub to allow you to connect both your Amiga and PC (and anything else) to it.
This has already been mentioned and not feasible as the P2302R does not have adsl/modem capabilities :)
Ah, right, the Zyxel has no internal modem. In this case, the Billion would have to be upstream in bridged (routerless) mode. But this is an option than can be pursued if all else fails...
Do I need to enter PROXY settings in the P2302R?
Do I need to enter STUN settings?
Am I supposed to forward RIP ports in the modem? Do I still need to do that if the firewall is turned off anyway?
I wouldn't worry about these details until your LAN is properly set up with static IPs all round, including the Zyxel, and the Amiga and PC able to ping everything else. I think you're just trying to get ahead of yourself here and ending up in a slight muddle. :)

Your third question tells me you need to brush upon some network fundamentals. ;) Can I suggest you read up on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_ad ... ranslation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_forwarding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewall

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:57 pm

stevebow wrote: However you do it, I suspect a fresh install will solve your PC pinging problem. You mentioned earlier you were using Acrobat Read V4. That is, like, way old. I'm wondering what else you might have that is very out of date that could affect things. Would it be worth taking a step back for now, doing a fresh install/clean-out and getting applications and drivers up-to-date?
I would've installed Acrobat which came bundled with one of the program CD's when I was reinstalling all my previously-used software from Win98, and haven't bothered checking for updates ever since, as it always worked fine until now. I am still very sceptical of Windows not trashing my system or failing to authenticate properly if I try reinstalling it onto another drive. I will search the net and/or contact MS to see if they are able to tell me. Ideally I would expect Windows to display three choices after selecting Windows from the grub bootloader; the two existing options of Win98 and WinXP, then the newly-installed WinXP. The last thing I want is for my existing WinXP to become unavailable/unbootable. After installing WinXP, I may have to tweak grub by adding another menu item for the new WinXP (or old WinXP if it removes that option from the menu). Who knows - WinXP install might even say WinXP is already installed on the computer (like it did when I installed WinXP and Win98 was already on another drive), and then because it's the same version, might just exit the installer...

I would still just prefer to get VOIP working. I wouldn't think the fact I can't ping the PC from the Amiga would actually be a related issue, as the P2302R would be able to work regardless of whether the PC is even turned on. But in saying that, I have known Windows to do strange things to the modem in the past, without my permission :) I will turn off the PC and access the P2302R from the Amiga and try dialling-out with the phone connected to the P2302R, with the PC completely out of the equation.
Ah, right, the Zyxel has no internal modem. In this case, the Billion would have to be upstream in bridged (routerless) mode. But this is an option than can be pursued if all else fails...
Would I still be able to have two computers connected to the modem if it's set to bridged mode - the P2302R only has one LAN port and thus would only be able to connect one computer at a time.
Your third question tells me you need to brush upon some network fundamentals. ;) Can I suggest you read up on:
I was probably overwhelmed by so much reading of the manual, which does explain alot what you linked to.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:12 am

I have the latest firmware version for my billion modem and noticed in the release notes pdf that it states: "Current NAT ALG does not work with Hotsip (VOIP softphone)", and wonder if that may also be applicable to VOIP in general. It may be that I need a more modern modem...

I will try and install the latest firmware this afternoon.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:47 pm

outbush wrote:
basshead wrote:Well I've read through the user manual and I'm none the wiser, and my brain hurts.
Its interesting what other posters say:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... 1030184#r2
P 2302R for less than $15,

Simple to setup, ............set and forget

No problems, no complaints

I replied in that thread. Interesting response received, which basically means my modem is now useless if I want to use VOIP through it, and all further attempts at trying are likely to be a complete waste of time!

stevebow
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:42 am

basshead wrote:Interesting response received, which basically means my modem is now useless if I want to use VOIP through it, and all further attempts at trying are likely to be a complete waste of time!
For outbound-only VOIP (DID-less) you don't need a router with SIP ALG as the Exetel VOIP Outbound Proxy will get you through the NAT. For example, the old NB5580W router/modem I used to use way back when worked perfectly fine with VOIP (in those days, a softphone on the PC), but I did not have a DID number back then and therefore could only make outbound calls in any case.

But going back through this thread, I see you do have a VOIP account with a DID number, so the Billion could be a problem for inbound VOIP calls. It's not the SIP registration that's the problem, rather the voice data itself (RTP) which is quite separate from SIP.
Last edited by stevebow on Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

stevebow
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:18 am

basshead wrote:But in saying that, I have known Windows to do strange things to the modem in the past, without my permission :)
This is kinda why I suggested doing a clean install. It looks like Norton360 has messed something up (eg. your Windows firewall, maybe pining, what else?).

But anyway, that's entirely your call. :)
I will turn off the PC and access the P2302R from the Amiga and try dialling-out with the phone connected to the P2302R, with the PC completely out of the equation.
I hope that will work. You know how it is with AWeb/IBrowse. Lack of CSS support, inadequate javascript, and so on. It would be preferable to configure anything with a PC (or Mac or Linux) browser, but you can only try it and see if it works I guess.
Would I still be able to have two computers connected to the modem if it's set to bridged mode - the P2302R only has one LAN port and thus would only be able to connect one computer at a time.
As I mentioned in Friday's post, you would also ned a hub/switch to break out the single LAN port. Your Billion already has a 4-way switch built in, as do most home "gateways" nowadays.

Poking around at the Zyxel website, I found a very interesting "Support Notes" document for your Zyxel that would be well worth downloading:

ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/P-2302R/support_not ... R_3.60.pdf

Note what it has to say on p.120:

It is NOT recommended that you install a NAT router in front of the Prestige as this may cause unexpected problems. If you still want to install a NAT router, use a VoIP ATA (VoIP Analog Telephone Adapter), such as the Prestige ATA series, instead.

Well, you can't really argue against the manufacturer. :) I would therefore recommend you set the Billion into bridged mode and use the Zyxel instead as your router. Because the Zyxel has the ATA built in, the problem of NAT transversal will be eliminated ie. less problems.

So, the setup would be: ADSL Line<-->Billion (bridged, ie modem only)<-->Zyxel (router/VOIP ATA)<-->switch<-->Amiga/PC/etc.

Once the Billion is configured in bridge mode ie. it is effectively now only a modem, connect it to the WAN port of the Zyxel. Note that you probably will not be able to access the config pages of your Billion once it is connected to the Zyxel WAN port from your PC which is now on the Zyxel LAN port. You would need to temporarily connect the PC directly to a Billion LAN port to access the config pages.

The Zyxel at default settings has its WAN port configured as PPPoE ie. you will now have to enter your Exetel ADSL login info into your Zyxel as it is the Zyxel now establishing the PPoE connection through the Billion "modem".

Can I suggest you do the above first (Billion=bridged, Zyxel=PPPoE, PC->Zyxel LAN port) and make sure you have internet connectivity. Then it should be fairly straightforward configuring the Zyxel for VOIP - with no NAT hassles! :D

You might as well disable the DHCP server in the Zyxel as it is enabled by default, seeing as though you have static IPs all round now. Shout out if there's anything you are having a problem with configuring.

Oh, you will need to find a hub/switch at some stage in order to get both your Amiga and PC connected at the same time to the single LAN port of the Zyxel.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:29 am

Thanks Steve. I much prefer trying that out than reinstalling Windows. Another friend also suggested setting the Billion to bridged mode as well. Routers these days are as cheap as chips, and I should be able to find one easily enough.

outbush
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by outbush » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:04 am

basshead wrote:I replied in that thread. Interesting response received, which basically means my modem is now useless if I want to use VOIP through it, and all further attempts at trying are likely to be a complete waste of time!
I think maybe you should obtain further advice about that 'Billion' modem before taking that poster's (salesperson for a particular company)advice too seriously.
stevebow wrote:Poking around at the Zyxel website, I found a very interesting "Support Notes" document for your Zyxel that would be well worth downloading:
ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/P-2302R/support_not ... R_3.60.pdf
Note what it has to say on p.120:

It is NOT recommended that you install a NAT router in front of the Prestige as this may cause unexpected problems. If you still want to install a NAT router, use a VoIP ATA (VoIP Analog Telephone Adapter), such as the Prestige ATA series, instead.
Well, you can't really argue against the manufacturer. I would therefore recommend you set the Billion into bridged mode and use the Zyxel instead as your router. Because the Zyxel has the ATA built in, the problem of NAT transversal will be eliminated ie. less problems.
Basshead, this information stevebow is referring to Re: 'Bridge mode' and 'Support notes'
was put forward to you way back (2nd August)here in my post:
http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p216070
Obviously you skimmed over it or found the networking concept difficult.

I suggest you read the postings in this thread on 2nd August as you haven't progressed since then and this thread is going round in circles.

basshead
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by basshead » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:51 pm

outbush wrote: I think maybe you should obtain further advice about that 'Billion' modem before taking that poster's (salesperson for a particular company)advice too seriously.
Point taken, and I have seen this kind of response (from salespeople) on forums before, and keep their possible ulterior motives in mind :)
Basshead, this information stevebow is referring to Re: 'Bridge mode' and 'Support notes'
was put forward to you way back (2nd August)here in my post:
http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p216070
Obviously you skimmed over it or found the networking concept difficult.

I suggest you read the postings in this thread on 2nd August as you haven't progressed since then and this thread is going round in circles.
I do remember reading your post earlier in the thread, and tried putting the Billion into bridge mode, but was not fully aware of how bridge mode works. I also thought I'd read (possibly on these forums) not to use bridge mode for a modem (or perhaps it was for the windows network adaptor). Now I understand that basically it completely bypasses the ISP-specific settings in the modem (and thus requires me to add those settings to the PPPoE config in the P2302R) I can try it again, hopefully this time more successfully. I will also re-read your post in case there is something I've forgotten about it...

stevebow
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Re: UNKNOWEDGABLE VOIP SEEKER REQUIRES ADVICE

Post by stevebow » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:54 am

basshead wrote:Thanks Steve. I much prefer trying that out than reinstalling Windows.
The suggestion of reinstalling Windows was not instead of any other procedures, but in addition. There seems to be a problem somewhere on your PC WRT networking. Changing router/modem/ATA configs etc. won't fix that problem.
Another friend also suggested setting the Billion to bridged mode as well.
There you go, three people that I am aware of have now suggested this. I wonder what that says. ;)
Routers these days are as cheap as chips, and I should be able to find one easily enough.
Now you've lost me there. Why do you need to "find one"? You have a very capable router already, your Zyxel. Why do you want to purchase something you already have? Spend the money on a 4-way ethernet hub or switch instead.


I have found a FAQ at the Billion website that instructs you how to configure the unit to bridged mode, albeit for the 740GE and 743GE, but I imagine the procedure is the same for your 741GE:

http://www.billion.com/support/faq/faq-a29.php

quote:

How to configure the router as pure ADSL bridged modem?
1.1 Using CLI command
(1) Restore to Factory setting via
- 'system config restore factory' CLI command; or
- push Reset Button more than 6 seconds

(2) Clear existing, unused transports
'pppoe clear transports'
'pppoa clear transports'
'rfc1483 clear transports'
ipoa clear transport

(3) Setup a new WAN transport as
pppoe add transports p1 dialout pvc 1 a1 0 32
pppoa add transports p1 dialout pvc 1 a1 0 32
'rfc1483 add transport r1483 a1 0 32 llc bridged'
ipoa add transports i1 pvc a1 0 32
(note: the parameters are depending on your ADSL line configuration)

(4) Create an new bridge interface
- 'bridge add interface br1483'

(5) Attach the WAN transport to new bridge interface
- 'bridge attach br1483 r1483'

(6) If everything configured well, you can start the PPPoE client running in PC

(7) You can check packet flow by 'transports list' to find out the packets counts


Unfortunately no info on how to do this via the web interface. In step (3) the parameter numbers 0 and 32 need to be replaced by 8 and 35. In step (6), your PPPoE client will of course be in your Zyxel and not the PC.

There is documentation on the CLI commands at the Billion website if you don't have it already:

http://au.billion.com/downloads/Billion ... Manual.zip

There is an entire chapter on bridging with much more info than you need to know.

If you are still stuck trying to bridge the Billion, ask in the Billion forums. Undoubtedly there will be knowledgeable Billion users who can take you through it step by step:

http://au.billion.com/forums/

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