Please chrge us for >48gb offpeak rather than pool us!

Help improve Exetel's services (a Suggestion Box is also available in your member facilities)

How would you like Exetel to handle the offpeak period?

Once 48gb is exceeded, speeds continue as normal but excess downloads are charged
18
50%
Once 48gb is exceeded, you are pooled (slow speeds) and then charged (normal speeds)
18
50%
 
Total votes: 36

kingy
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Byron Bay - North NSW

Post by kingy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:10 pm

Well, It's been a week!
Come on Exetel, please be 'fair-dinkum' ....

Please give your customers that decent response that they deserve...
I didn't think it was a difficult thing. :roll:
Thanks

James
Exetel Staff
Posts: 1992
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:27 pm

Post by James » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:24 pm

kingy wrote:
James wrote:Our P and BUS plans do not have off peak usage, they have download limits ranging from 24, to 40, and 80 gigabytes.
But I require heavy offpeak usage, so i would therefore desire some included offpeak quota.

Could you please provide a link?

Thx
More than 99% of our users do not go above the off peak limit.

If you require paid usage I would suggest the P plans; http://www.exetel.com.au/business_plan_pricing_new.php

or our BUS plans; http://www.exetel.com.au/business_shdsl.php

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:27 pm

Geez kingy, do you really need other people to spoon feed you stuff. What is so hard about going to www.exetel.com.au, then clicking on the business section and then on ADSL2 (direct link is http://www.exetel.com.au/business_plan_pricing_new.php)
Services Provided Via Telstra
W2 - 1500 kbps Down/256 kbps for $85 per month
W9 - 512 kbps Down/512 kbps Up for $85 per month
W10 - Up to 8192kbps Down/384 kbps Up for $125 per month

Business plans are unlimited downloads 7am to 7pm and $3/Gb at other times
I'm sorry if I'm coming off as abrupt, but you really seem quite demanding. Here Exetel are giving you a huge choice of ADSL2 plans ranging from residential or business, Powertel, Telstra or Optus, anywhere between 2Gb and 48Gb peak + 48Gb off peak, etc. They are sufficient for 99% or more of customers and you are demanding more?

Reading over you requirements what I have surmised is that due to heavy usage, you exceed 48Gb in off-peak traffic would like an option to continue download in the offpeak period uninterrupted and am happy to pay for it at $3 / Gb. The solution is extremely simple: download during peak times. Split your P2P downloads or whatever it is that is using up more than 48Gb between 24 hours of continuous downloads rather than 12 hours. You can easily achieve 60Gb or much more in peak hours in this manner and it is charged to you at $3/Gb. Why is this not a valid solution for you?

kingy
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Byron Bay - North NSW

Post by kingy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:47 pm

James and CoreyPlover,
Sorry -I don't mean to be demanding at all,
but as I have already said... I wish I could get ADSL2+
-but I can't... It's not enabled at my exchange.


Also, as I have already said I cannot transfer downloads from the offpeak to peak period as access is required all thoughout the day.

I'm not demanding more, I'm actually demanding less...
I want to pay Exetel for any usage above 48gb where as they want to make it free up to72gb.

All I want is a reliable and consistant connection, which Exetel does offer (EXCEPT FOR THE POOL RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE THAT MUST BY SWUM THROUGH).

How hard really would it be to say goodbye to pools and hello to the excess usage system that is already implemented in the peak period?

Extel would gain more revenue, customers would be able to have uninterupted internet access without having to swim through pools and would also be able to explain to their friends how it works without confusing them!

What is the thinking / logic / reasoning behind Exetels pools?
I understand they had a purpose before Extel started charging for +72gb in offpeak, but now that you pay if you DL too much in the offpeak.... I'm struggling to find a real purpose for the pools?? Care to enlighten?
Thx

James
Exetel Staff
Posts: 1992
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:27 pm

Post by James » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:50 pm

kingy wrote:James and CoreyPlover,
Sorry -I don't mean to be demanding at all,
but as I have already said... I wish I could get ADSL2+
-but I can't... It's not enabled at my exchange.


Also, as I have already said I cannot transfer downloads from the offpeak to peak period as access is required all thoughout the day.

I'm not demanding more, I'm actually demanding less...
I want to pay Exetel for any usage above 48gb where as they want to make it free up to72gb.

All I want is a reliable and consistant connection, which Exetel does offer (EXCEPT FOR THE POOL RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE THAT MUST BY SWUM THROUGH).

How hard really would it be to say goodbye to pools and hello to the excess usage system that is already implemented in the peak period?

Extel would gain more revenue, customers would be able to have uninterupted internet access without having to swim through pools and would also be able to explain to their friends how it works without confusing them!

What is the thinking / logic / reasoning behind Exetels pools?
I understand they had a purpose before Extel started charging for +72gb in offpeak, but now that you pay if you DL too much in the offpeak.... I'm struggling to find a real purpose for the pools?? Care to enlighten?
Thx
Your best bet is to choose one of the P or BUS plans, the current off peak period is more than sufficient for over 99.5% of our current user base.

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:39 pm

kingy wrote:I wish I could get ADSL2+
-but I can't... It's not enabled at my exchange.
Oh! I though you said you couldn't get Powertel and assumed that meant you could only get Telstra or Optus provisioned services. My apologies.

I'm not an Exetel staff, so I can't comment on the reasons for the speed shaping / pool shaping after 48Gb. I suspect it is because many people try to leech the absolute limit out of their connection and prefer the "notification" they receive via a shape shaping that they have breached their limit. It might also be customers not liking to pay for downloads out of their control (i.e a family or roommates). I reckon Exetel would get a whole lot more hate mail if people breached 48Gb by 1 Mb and got charged $3 more for it. But you are correct, an opt-in system would solve this issue too.

But, since I can't control Exetel's charges, I can only offer advice for workaround. Plus, I'm an incredibly stubborn person...so back to my peak / off-peak migration.

If by "access is require throughout the day" you mean that you don't want P2P to impair ordinary peak time browsing you can enable QoS on your router. This feature can give P2P traffic lowest priority so you can download 24 hours a day without impairing other access. You can give HTTP traffic a 90% allocation of bandwidth, meaning when other people are browsing, they are guaranteed 90% of the bandwidth (your P2P slows down to compensate). When they stop browsing, your P2P automatically speeds up to the limit you may have preset on your torrent client. Combined with scheduled download limits this gives you the perfect ability to download unlimited amounts (at $3/Gb) during peak times.

kingy
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Byron Bay - North NSW

Post by kingy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:10 pm

James wrote:
kingy wrote: Your best bet is to choose one of the P or BUS plans, the current off peak period is more than sufficient for over 99.5% of our current user base.
I have already explained why these plans don't suit me a number of times. Please read the bold parts of my post above.

What is the thinking / logic / reasoning behind Exetels pools?
I understand they had a purpose before Extel started charging for +72gb in offpeak, but now that you pay if you DL too much in the offpeak.... I'm struggling to find a real purpose for the pools?? Care to enlighten?


Thx

James
Exetel Staff
Posts: 1992
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:27 pm

Post by James » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:30 pm

kingy wrote:
James wrote:
kingy wrote: Your best bet is to choose one of the P or BUS plans, the current off peak period is more than sufficient for over 99.5% of our current user base.
I have already explained why these plans don't suit me a number of times. Please read the bold parts of my post above.

What is the thinking / logic / reasoning behind Exetels pools?
I understand they had a purpose before Extel started charging for +72gb in offpeak, but now that you pay if you DL too much in the offpeak.... I'm struggling to find a real purpose for the pools?? Care to enlighten?


Thx
I thought I already answered it? I doubt something that 99.5% of our customers do not go over will be changed.

kingy
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Byron Bay - North NSW

Post by kingy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:43 pm

I'm led to believe that the remaining 0.5% are still important to Exetel otherwise why bother implementing such complex pooling policies?
I love everything about Exetel except for this one thing!
I want to pay you money for my downlaods in excess of 48gb (while maintaining normal speeds), BUT YOU WON'T LET ME!

It also puts off potential customers (who aren't likely to go anywhere near 48gb), yet become confused by the complexities of the pools and going in and out of the pools etc. Why would your response to this be?

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:33 pm

Look kingy: Get over it!

Exetel and other ISPs are not gunna specifically tailor plans for just your needs. They are tailored to meet the needs of the majority of users and balanced against whatever the technical implementation issues are from Exetel's point of view.

Fact: You want to download lots, are willing to pay for such downloads

Fact: Exetel are not going to change their arrangement because one person (you) wants something different. Yes, your poll indicates that about 50% of people would prefer an opt-in system, but I think you'll find that most people prefer a pooled system over a charged one. Hence, Exetel's decision to cater for the majority.

Fact: The W business plans are Telstra ADSL1 and provided UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS AT $3/Gb. How does this not suit your needs? You could at least provide us with which exchange you are connected to so we can determine availability of services rather than rejecting every piece of offered advice

Fact: QoS will completely allow you to migrate your P2P, IRC and all other scheduled downloads to peak time without impacting the internet experience other users.

Seriously, quit your demanding for a tailored plan (because it is not gunna happen) and examined the optoins available to you: business and other ADSL1 options and/or migration of downloads to peak time using QoS. Alternatively give us more information as to why each of the options are not viable for you. We are willing to examine your circumstances and with all the flexibility on offer from Exetel in terms of pricing plans, etc there is bound to be an alternative that fits your needs without you having to demand that Exetel change their business model and systems to suit you.

Some comments on your previous post:
kingy wrote:I'm led to believe that the remaining 0.5% are still important to Exetel otherwise why bother implementing such complex pooling policies?
Put quite simply: bottom line cost and profit to Exetel. Most companies do things to maximise their revenue. Exetel is no exception, they just balance their profit maximisation with being fair to the customer. Previously, some users were leeching 250Gb per month without any financial penalty and adversely impacting the experience of other customers.
kingy wrote:I want to pay you money for my downlaods in excess of 48gb (while maintaining normal speeds), BUT YOU WON'T LET ME!
And we're back to the business plan and QoS options. Why are these not viable options for you?
kingy wrote:It also puts off potential customers (who aren't likely to go anywhere near 48gb), yet become confused by the complexities of the pools and going in and out of the pools etc. Why would your response to this be?
There is no complexity unless the user exceeds 48Gb. Keep your quota to beneath 48Gb off-peak and you won't be affected. Doesn't seem complicated to me. Besides, the 48Gb / pooling / separate peak allocation / etc are in my opinion, things that attract customers. Low cost, high quota, sufficient allocated bandwidth per user are difficult features to find in any other ISP.

kingy
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Byron Bay - North NSW

Post by kingy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:17 pm

Thanks CoreyPlover, but I don't understand why you are so opposed to an opt-in system.
CoreyPlover wrote: Yes, your poll indicates that about 50% of people would prefer an opt-in system, but I think you'll find that most people prefer a pooled system over a charged one. Hence, Exetel's decision to cater for the majority.
Where is your basis for such a claim?
CoreyPlover wrote: The W business plans are Telstra ADSL1 and provided UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS AT $3/Gb. How does this not suit your needs? You could at least provide us with which exchange you are connected to so we can determine availability of services rather than rejecting every piece of offered advice


My exchange is Cooranbong in NSW.
Here's an example monthly scenario

(Example with Exetel RESIDENTIAL plan (with excess offpeak dls charged)
Say I download:
50gb in the peak period ($3 X 2 Excess = $6)
Offpeak = 60gb ($3 X 12 Excess = $36 )
TOTAL (TELP Plan) = $105 + 36 + 6 = $147 total

Example with W10 (business plan)
= $125 (monthly fee) + ($3 X 60gb offpeak = $180) TOTAL = $305!

A Business plan would cost more than double as much, for the same amount of downloads!

No I can't reschedule downloads because I share the connection with housemates and I'm not the main downloader. I have no control over what times people are awake and what time the sleep and what time they browse or dl things on the net.
CoreyPlover wrote: Put quite simply: bottom line cost and profit to Exetel. Most companies do things to maximise their revenue. Exetel is no exception, they just balance their profit maximisation with being fair to the customer. Previously, some users were leeching 250Gb per month without any financial penalty and adversely impacting the experience of other customers.
You keep contradicting yourself... if they wanted more revenue, then why not start charging for excess downloads at 48gb 8) This would generate more $ while keeping speeds during the offpeak consistent.
CoreyPlover wrote: kingy wrote:
I want to pay you money for my downlaods in excess of 48gb (while maintaining normal speeds), BUT YOU WON'T LET ME!

And we're back to the business plan and QoS options. Why are these not viable options for you?
When I say I'm happy to pay more. I'm happy to pay for the extra GB I use in the offpeak and peak periods, but paying more than double as much doesn't seem sensible! Does it to you?
CoreyPlover wrote: There is no complexity unless the user exceeds 48Gb. Keep your quota to beneath 48Gb off-peak and you won't be affected.
That's kind of like paying for super budget insurance on your house and not asking 'what if' questions like, what happens if my home burns down?

I just received an email from an Exetel representative who said that Exetel is working on a better off-peak system (hopefully with an opt-in system). Sounds good!

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:01 pm

Wow! Those are some really good points that you've made with your reply. Honestly, it's not often that I concede to better judgement.

I suppose we can wrap up this thread then because clearly an opt-in system is the better mechanism because it tailors the finer points of the contract (quota, cost, etc) to suit the customer.

There is one further option that you can examine, and that is two independent ADSL contracts. You could possibly replace the TELP plan with 2 TELO plans and split them between housemates. This would give you an extra 48Gb off peak per month for roughly $60 more per month ($30 from ADSL + $30 from line rental) + $150 upfront activation. It may become viable for extreme excessive usage

But yes, your best option is to hold out for the improve off-peak system which is likely to be related to the improved P2P caching infrastructure they will be installing at the end of November.

kingy
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Byron Bay - North NSW

Post by kingy » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:35 am

CoreyPlover wrote:Wow! Those are some really good points that you've made with your reply. Honestly, it's not often that I concede to better judgement.
Thankyou 8)
CoreyPlover wrote: I suppose we can wrap up this thread then because clearly an opt-in system is the better mechanism because it tailors the finer points of the contract (quota, cost, etc) to suit the customer.
Yes -I think that's a good idea.
CoreyPlover wrote: There is one further option that you can examine, and that is two independent ADSL contracts. You could possibly replace the TELP plan with 2 TELO plans and split them between housemates. This would give you an extra 48Gb off peak per month for roughly $60 more per month ($30 from ADSL + $30 from line rental) + $150 upfront activation. It may become viable for extreme excessive usage
I wish Exetel would offer additional 'Virtual ADSL' accounts. Where they simply provide you with a new Username + PW so you can login with an existing ADSL line. e.g. I'd just update the username/PW in my modem when I'm running low on DL allowance.
I believe Internode does this, and I don't think it would be too hard to implement. They could actually make the virtual plans cheaper than regular ones as Telstra wholesale doesn't need to be paid, because there is already an existing line. Make sense?
CoreyPlover wrote: But yes, your best option is to hold out for the improve off-peak system which is likely to be related to the improved P2P caching infrastructure they will be installing at the end of November.
I'm keen to see how the new P2P chaching system will work. I hope it's not just too good to be true.
Thanks CoreyPlover...

So the three outcomes/ideas from this are
1. An opt-in system where excess offpeak downloads are charged (anything over 48gb and speeds continue as normal).
2. The possiblility of Exetel releasing 'virtual ADSL' accounts?
2. P2P caching and how this will affect the offpeak period. Won't P2P downloads be unlimited if they are coming from a local Exetel cache?

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:52 am

Actually, an "unlimited P2P" plan has been in discussion for a short while. I just summarised the thread in http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.ph ... 135#186828 for another poster. Option 1 discussed the proposal of Exetel to have 50Gb of P2P cached data in addition to the peak and off-peak allocation for an additional $10 cost on your plan.

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