Naked users forgotten?

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vbap
Posts: 224
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by vbap » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:13 am

Thanks Paul

Spectator
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by Spectator » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:27 pm

paulp wrote:
ouch. That adds $8/month to the 12 month contract (granted, one has to expect some sort of "sunk" provisioning cost).
What about transferring from ONx to the new OTFree-x bundles?
- It doesn't matter. Our supplier charges us a once off activation fee in preparing the un-used copper pair for telephony. Once off $98.
Doesn't the supplier also usually charge a line activation charge that is normally passed on by Exetel for new connections but is not under the OTFree-x bundles?

Slightly off-topic but exetel don't charge line activation for people signing up to the OTFree-x bundles but do charge for the other plans even if the customer has also bundled a mobile. I suggest Exetel consider waiving the line activation on any plan where customer includes a bundled mobile cap plan (or for bundles above a set threshold). For example, a customer of the OTFree-1 plan would pay a total of $49 to exetel and have line activation waived but a person on OTL-A with mobile cap 59 would pay $43 ADSL (incl line rental) less $20 discount plus $59 mobile for a total of $82. Despite bringing significantly more $ to Exetel (and a greater proportion from the more profitable mobile plan) these customers would be required to pay the line activation charge.

Ravenous
Posts: 325
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Location: Brisbane, Qld

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by Ravenous » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:05 pm

The OTFree-x bundles require the PSTN to be already activated on the wire line. The fee discussed above looks to apply mainly to the re-connection of the PSTN component not the ADSL component.

An alternative would be to cancel the naked service, pay for a Telstra HomeLine (or equiv) activation, apply for and get transferred to the OTFree-x bundle plus pay for 'early cancellations' of the Telstra HomeLine account.

Spectator
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by Spectator » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:22 pm

Ravenous wrote:The OTFree-x bundles require the PSTN to be already activated on the wire line. The fee discussed above looks to apply mainly to the re-connection of the PSTN component not the ADSL component.
fair enough

rseydler
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by rseydler » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:13 pm

Sorry to run through this again, been working to much...

Comparing the cheapest naked ($43) and the cheapest wireline ($43 with $0 line rental) we have..

Port cost for naked is $2 less a month than the wireline.

Exetel make their money on wireline calls but supply VOIP DID for free with cheaper call costs. You would assume that the smart users of either naked (is there a choice?) or wireline would be taking advantage of VOIP and maybe even a VOIP addon pack.

The cheapest wireline account has 40GB peak download more than naked.

Ok so maybe I'm just having a long week and my mind isn't in the right gear but i guess we need to ask.... are naked users subsidising the wireline users?

Col
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: NSW

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by Col » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:21 pm

rseydler wrote:Ok so maybe I'm just having a long week and my mind isn't in the right gear but i guess we need to ask.... are naked users subsidising the wireline users?
I think the story I am getting is that those non-VoIP users with their 'expensive' call charges are subsidising all bundled ADSL2+ customers. Exetel just aren't wanting to divert some of that to their naked plans.

ForumAdmin
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Location: Sydney

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by ForumAdmin » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:13 am

Naked users make no profit at all for Exetel.

If anything the reverse is true - bundled users are more 'profitable' than byo users and naked users - simply because they make low priced telephone calls on which Exetel makes a small profit.

The current thinking is that Exetel should only sell naked services if they are bundled with an Exetel VoIP service that has a $5.00 minimum spend.

vbap
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by vbap » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:49 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:The current thinking is that Exetel should only sell naked services if they are bundled with an Exetel VoIP service that has a $5.00 minimum spend.
...so I would buy a $5 VoIP pack that includes 100 calls.
Or, put another way, my $43/mo service becaomes a $48/mo service with 100 free VoIP calls included.
We could call this plan something like "NAK2A"....

This is deja vu all over again....


It's a bit unfair, since we spend ~$3-$4/month on VoIP calls, so in our case, we are already ~$48/mo...But I specifically changed from NAK2A to ONA to get the (then) reduction from $45 to $40 (the 100 free voip calls already being removed from NAK2A earlier...).

Since $100 to change to a wireplan is not very palatable, I would be happy to pay $50/mo for my current ONA plan, if it included 50 VoIP calls and 50 mobile minutes (or $47 + $3 account keeping fee if that marketing approach is more suitable).

ForumAdmin
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Location: Sydney

$40.00 per month

Post by ForumAdmin » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:44 pm

You are talking about "fair"?

Your naked port costs Exetel A little less than $40.00 and on top of that we have to pay for the back haul and IP and the other costs of running a company that does these quite complex things.....

...and you think, somehow, you are not being treated "fairly"?

What do you expect to pay for such a service? You already pay less than it costs us to provide it to you.

You say you can churn to another naked ADSL2 service provider for free and get a lower cost service?

Please, don't continue to be ripped off by Exetel if there is a lower cost provider - do yourself a favour and get a lower cost services from someone else - you will save both yourself and Exetel money and your chosen provider will get an extra customer who presumably they can make some profit from - a three way plus.

vbap
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: $40.00 per month

Post by vbap » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:15 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:You are talking about "fair"?
Was this directed at my post?
If so, then I think you misunderstood (or, reading back, I did not express myself clearly).
I meant it was unfair of me to make that comparison (43 vs 48/month) because I did not include the cost of my VoIP calls.

Certainly, I did not make any reference to being able to get the same plan for cheaper.

ForumAdmin
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Location: Sydney

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:34 am

I was pointing out that the cost of providing a naked service already exceeded the average revenue naked services generate - in other words providing naked services results in a loss to Exetel.

Therefore "improving" the "value" of naked services is virtually impossible.

vbap
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by vbap » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:07 am

I agree it must be very difficult.

I had asked in a comment to one of the blog posts whether I am a burden on Exetel at the current pricing/service. If it costs you more than I am paying, then I can't see how I'm not.

I was happy to pay $45/mo a year ago when I first joined (with included calls/extras).
I was fine when the freebies were dropped.
I was fine when Exetel made it "compelling" (nobody was forced...) to switch to the $40/mo
I was fine when the $3 month admin charge was added to cover costs.

There was a big kerfuffle early in the year to address a group of loss making customers (the heavy downloaders). My concern is that Naked users are the next target group.
I am happy with the service, I have no desire to churn. But for me to switch to a wireline plan will cost $100 to activate a phone service I have no intention of using is a bit too much, and I'm not sure it would change the profitability of my account to Exetel.

Perhaps you can re-visit a PFWYU plan for naked? The monthly charge can be $40/mo (I assume this is about $2 more than base port cost). The admin/service fee of $3 on top of that. Let's make it a round $45/mo "base cost".
Then usage is charged for VoIP and data on current plans costs (eg data at $0.50/gb peak down load).

I pay for my other "Utilities" in this way (although they still charge me for off-peak services!), so I'm perfectly OK with a completely usage-based internet service.

I'm sure you've already thought about it and discussed the pros and cons...

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
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Location: Sydney

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:18 pm

vbap wrote:I agree it must be very difficult.

I had asked in a comment to one of the blog posts whether I am a burden on Exetel at the current pricing/service. If it costs you more than I am paying, then I can't see how I'm not.

I was happy to pay $45/mo a year ago when I first joined (with included calls/extras).
I was fine when the freebies were dropped.
I was fine when Exetel made it "compelling" (nobody was forced...) to switch to the $40/mo
I was fine when the $3 month admin charge was added to cover costs.

There was a big kerfuffle early in the year to address a group of loss making customers (the heavy downloaders). My concern is that Naked users are the next target group.
I am happy with the service, I have no desire to churn. But for me to switch to a wireline plan will cost $100 to activate a phone service I have no intention of using is a bit too much, and I'm not sure it would change the profitability of my account to Exetel.

Perhaps you can re-visit a PFWYU plan for naked? The monthly charge can be $40/mo (I assume this is about $2 more than base port cost). The admin/service fee of $3 on top of that. Let's make it a round $45/mo "base cost".
Then usage is charged for VoIP and data on current plans costs (eg data at $0.50/gb peak down load).

I pay for my other "Utilities" in this way (although they still charge me for off-peak services!), so I'm perfectly OK with a completely usage-based internet service.

I'm sure you've already thought about it and discussed the pros and cons...
The only thing being considered is making it painless (operationally) and no impact (financially) for a 'naked' customer to switch to an inc wire line service.

Nothing has been decided but something like the current 'bundled plans' plus a $5.00 included VoIP allocation.

We will seek current naked customer's views on this via email offering a free transfer to a wire line service on a 12 month contract at no more than they are currently paying except they use Exetel's VoIP service.

Under no circumstances is Exetel considering dropping the naked service for current customers if they wish to stay on an 'naked' service.

2010 has been a very unpleasant year to be in the Australian residential communications business but let's all hope that 2011 is not so difficult.

rseydler
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by rseydler » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:13 pm

Looking forward to the email. The primary reason I went naked is due to having BP cable and using VOIP for so long. It just made sense to go naked when we would never have used the wire line anyhow. However if it is more cost effective to have a wireline and not use it then so be it :)

vbap
Posts: 224
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Naked users forgotten?

Post by vbap » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:54 pm

rseydler wrote: However if it is more cost effective to have a wireline and not use it then so be it :)
This is the confusing bit for me. According to FA, the wireline plans are "profitable" due to people actually using the PSTN for phone calls. If you were to change to a wireline plan, but not use it, then I don't see how you are any more profitable to Exetel than when you were under a naked plan (unless the supplier provides wireline ports at a discount to naked ports - but I thought that it was previously said a naked port is about $2 less per month than a wireline port?)

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