Aaaarggghhhhh

Connection issues, drop outs or speed related faults for ADSL and ADSL2+ services
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kirkc
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:02 pm
Location: Perth

Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by kirkc » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm

I am so upset with the problems I've had the past 3 days with my ADSL service I cannot put it into words. It is made so much worse becasue it follows the saga (disaster?) of the changing of IP addresses in WA a few weeks. I work from home and the internet is my lifeline to my interstae employer..much more of this and if I still have a job I'll need to find a new ISP.

I'll try to keep my ranting to a minimum and just make a couple of requests and a few suggestions...

Requests:
1) Please don't both sending a second technician out.
2) Please change my service back to ADSL 2+ (or whatever it is called). Thank you in advance.

Suggestions:
1) Build in some discretion & flexibility when attempting to diagnose faults / eliminate causes buy phone. I have had the pleasure of dealing with very many Exetel support staff, sometimes 6 or more in one day, and it is about as useful as ticking boxes on a form. This is not intended to be a criticism of the staff, just the one size fits all irrespective of other obvious factors approach. It will save much frustration for customers and possibly save Exetel money thru not pointlessly tying up their staff & resources. An example...consider the improbability of a modem dying at the same time as a fault developed in the line outside the cusstomers premises - no amount of isolation tests and reboots and unplugging and plugging is going to change that. Look at the individual history...maybe 35 calls to support staff on 3 (technically 4 I guess) occasions where the ADSL wasn't working for days at a time and never a problem at this end, but many many suggestions that it was. I understand the need to deal with people who don't know one end of a cable from the other but use some discretion and save us all the trouble when possible.
2) Educate your whapeople about central splitter/filters...i.e. the hard wired kind typically installed in the roof. I spoke to 5 or 6 people and clearly explained my setup and it wasn't until day 3 that someone knew t I was talking about. Even then it took some persistence from me. He mentioned that this hadn't been taken into account with previous line tests. In my case it was unrelated to the problem but it did needlessly waste everyones time.
3) If someone decides it is a good idea to change a customers "profile" or "port" (can't recall which term he used) then make sure the customer knows what you mean and that his modem settings are changed accordingly, or at least have the very many subsequent staff made aware of the change when trying to diagnose a continuing problem. In my case the line was faulty, Telstra fixed it, but beforehand in trying to fix the problem Exetel dropped my speed to what I guess is ADSL 1. So of course after the fault was fixed the modem still wouldn't sync. Like mine, the modem which I borrowed 3 ******* times at Exetel's insistence was also set for ADSL 2+ so it appeared to confirm that the ADSL signal still wasn't present. It was only by chance I tried changing this setting tonight and behold, it worked. It was only then that I could see that my speed has been massively reduced. If I can figure out what Exetel did, then surely they should be able to as well, especially without putting me through all of this inconvenience.
4) If you are going to offer to send a tech out check the lines on the condition the customer coughs up $200 odd if a fault is found at the customer's end then perhaps look at the customers history and consider waiving it. In addition to the this saga and the saga of the changed IP's, I had a problem maybe 12 months ago where the fault was again found to be somewhere in the network. I understand the need for this charge but I resent being told for the 3rd time to date that I will have to pay if it isn't a netwrok problem. What about the 2 times it was...and the how much is that worth? I don't even get a prorata reduction in my line rental when the phone has been out on 2 of these occasions. Not to mention the added insult of having to pay for the very mahy pointless calls to Exetel...instead the free calls I should be making using the Engin VOIP service I pay for but can't use.

I know I'm whinging but believe me if you'd had these dramas you would too. For the most part I don't think Exetel have really done anything wrong, except perhaps for not realising the potential implications of changing my line speed...in the midst of trying to diagnose a fault(!), but their customer service in general needs improvement.

Martin V
Exetel Staff
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:38 pm
Location: Sydney where else :P

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Martin V » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:45 am

Hello Kirkc,

I have attached the answers below your questions:

1) Please don't both sending a second technician out.

Case has been closed so no technician will be organized.

2) Please change my service back to ADSL 2+ (or whatever it is called). Thank you in advance.

I have changed the profile of your connection.

1) Build in some discretion & flexibility when attempting to diagnose faults / eliminate causes buy phone. I have had the pleasure of dealing with very many Exetel support staff, sometimes 6 or more in one day, and it is about as useful as ticking boxes on a form. This is not intended to be a criticism of the staff, just the one size fits all irrespective of other obvious factors approach. It will save much frustration for customers and possibly save Exetel money thru not pointlessly tying up their staff & resources. An example...consider the improbability of a modem dying at the same time as a fault developed in the line outside the cusstomers premises - no amount of isolation tests and reboots and unplugging and plugging is going to change that. Look at the individual history...maybe 35 calls to support staff on 3 (technically 4 I guess) occasions where the ADSL wasn't working for days at a time and never a problem at this end, but many many suggestions that it was. I understand the need to deal with people who don't know one end of a cable from the other but use some discretion and save us all the trouble when possible.

All aspects of equipment needs to be tested, a new modem is not required to be purchased as you can borrow one off a friend or family member for testing. We've had several cases where there was no problems found with in the infrastructure.

The suggestions weren't made directly at you that the problem is on your end, we were merely troubleshooting all aspects of equipment before organizing a technician to attend. This is also a part of the supplier requirements and their check points. The fee for service charge for a technician is quite high, so it would better to make sure all the checks are done.

2) Educate your whapeople about central splitter/filters...i.e. the hard wired kind typically installed in the roof. I spoke to 5 or 6 people and clearly explained my setup and it wasn't until day 3 that someone knew t I was talking about. Even then it took some persistence from me. He mentioned that this hadn't been taken into account with previous line tests. In my case it was unrelated to the problem but it did needlessly waste everyones time.

Our support personnel are aware of a central filter/splitter is, keep in mind that all filter in-stallion that associate with back to base alarms could be different. This depends on the product and installer of the filters.

If you can please email pictures of your set up of the filters: martinv@exetel.com.au and i will incorporate that into staff training material and use your case as an example.

3) If someone decides it is a good idea to change a customers "profile" or "port" (can't recall which term he used) then make sure the customer knows what you mean and that his modem settings are changed accordingly, or at least have the very many subsequent staff made aware of the change when trying to diagnose a continuing problem. In my case the line was faulty, Telstra fixed it, but beforehand in trying to fix the problem Exetel dropped my speed to what I guess is ADSL 1. So of course after the fault was fixed the modem still wouldn't sync. Like mine, the modem which I borrowed 3 ******* times at Exetel's insistence was also set for ADSL 2+ so it appeared to confirm that the ADSL signal still wasn't present. It was only by chance I tried changing this setting tonight and behold, it worked. It was only then that I could see that my speed has been massively reduced. If I can figure out what Exetel did, then surely they should be able to as well, especially without putting me through all of this inconvenience.

As part of the troubleshooting procedure "profiles" do get changed, it's not for sake of putting you on a ADSL 1 connection but because ADSL 2 is more sensitive towards frequency. It's all a part of troubleshooting and testing, a majority of the time profile changes often brings a connection back online. From there we make changes again to raise the profile of your connection, i have changed the profile of your connection as per your request.

4) If you are going to offer to send a tech out check the lines on the condition the customer coughs up $200 odd if a fault is found at the customer's end then perhaps look at the customers history and consider waiving it. In addition to the this saga and the saga of the changed IP's, I had a problem maybe 12 months ago where the fault was again found to be somewhere in the network. I understand the need for this charge but I resent being told for the 3rd time to date that I will have to pay if it isn't a netwrok problem. What about the 2 times it was...and the how much is that worth? I don't even get a prorata reduction in my line rental when the phone has been out on 2 of these occasions. Not to mention the added insult of having to pay for the very mahy pointless calls to Exetel...instead the free calls I should be making using the Engin VOIP service I pay for but can't use.

The incorrect call out fee isn't a charge that exetel wishes to put on our customers, unfortunately we cannot absorb such a high cost especially if it's found that the infrastructure is in full working order. Many ISP's not only Exetel requires this agreement before having technician organized.

Regarding the pro-rata charge and if you're still having voip problems please email resolution@exetel.com.au and i will handle that those issues for you.

Please find the summary of your case:

- Case logged through system 14/12

- SMS sent to request for isolation for testing 14/12

- Request end user to run and isolation test and reconfigure modem 15/12 10:50AM

- Line test performed 15/12 12:00PM

- Check list 15/12 01:00PM

- Fault logged 15/12 01:40PM

- Supplier update with information of technician 16/12 10:30AM

- EU called in advise still having problems after technician attendance 16/12 03:35PM

- Supplier advise that the cable joint to the property has been fixed 16/12 3:50PM

- Customer called in and advise us that there's still problems, confirmed that the line isn't syncing up.
Discussed this case with the supplier to confirm the problem, Supplier advise that further line testing is required as cabling for the line has been fixed 4:30PM.

- Attempted to contact customer but wasn't successful 7:30PM

- End user contacted to do a CLI check and run further line test 8:10PM

- Customers connection came back online 16/12 11:00PM
Martin
eXeTeL Support

kirkc
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:02 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by kirkc » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:16 am

Thanks for your reply and for changing my profile back tp normal.

I may not have got a few key points across clearly, Most of the Exetel staff I spoke to did not understand what a chard wired central splitter/filter is. In my case, the line from the exchange comes up into my roof to the splitter for there the adsl line goes to a socket in my study. The phone line goes from the splitter to the alarm then to a scoet in my study.

I did not know exactly what "changing my profile" meant at the time and the Exettel staff member who did it apparently wasn't aware of the potential implication for a modem set for the original profile. This oversight was responsible for most of the frustration.

Dazzled
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 6003
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:16 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Dazzled » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:44 am

I am sure it works properly, but be wary about that filter. These must be installed by a licensed cabler, to these rules, among others:
10.3.3.2. Location
The filter shall be located in accordance with the following requirements:
(a) It shall be installed on an internal wall in a readily accessible location no less
than 150 mm, measured to the bottom of the casing, and no more than 2
metres, measured to the top of the casing, above floor level.
(b) Where practicable, the filter should be located near the first TO for either the
telephone service or the DSL service and in any case shall be visible from the
living space by the occupant. Installation in a cupboard or robe is acceptable
(see Figure 98).
(c) The filter shall not be installed in any building cavity (e.g. roof space, under-
floor crawl space or wall cavity) under any circumstances.
Telstra comment: The centralised filter inserts a low pass filter and additional impedance in the telephone line. For service reasons, it is important for Telstra or the relevant service provider, as well as the customer and any cabling provider, to be aware of the existence of the centralised filter. Accordingly, it must be visible from the living space. The centralised filter may need to be removed or replaced for maintenance reasons or to support future technologies.
Last edited by Dazzled on Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Munka
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Rural NSW

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Munka » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:44 am

kirkc wrote: The phone line goes from the splitter to the alarm then to a scoet in my study.
I know that
scoet
must be a typo, but what are you referring to here?
Munka

Dazzled
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Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Dazzled » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:48 am

Socket, Munka, not secret.

Gidget
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Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Gidget » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:19 pm

kirkc wrote:I did not know exactly what "changing my profile" meant at the time and the Exettel staff member who did it apparently wasn't aware of the potential implication for a modem set for the original profile. This oversight was responsible for most of the frustration.
As Martin says, changing your profile is often a troubleshooting step taken to see if line stability may be the cause of the problem being experienced. It is a good idea, unless you have a compelling reason not to, to have your modem set to automatically negotiate the best connection i.e. don't force it to only connect as ADSL1 or as ADSL2+ etc.

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

Munka
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Rural NSW

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Munka » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:31 pm

Dazzled wrote:Socket, Munka, not secret.
*Head slap* of course you are correct, my bad.
Munka

kirkc
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:02 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by kirkc » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:08 pm

Sorry for my crap typing and thanks for the advice. The modem is now set for auto adsl whatever and the info about the splitter/filter would explain why the staff didn't know what I was talking about...I shall get onto my sparky mate to sort this. Thanks again.

kirkc
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:02 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by kirkc » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:13 pm

...and Martin thanks for your offer of assistance. In my ranting I wasn't as clear as i could have been...my Engin VOIP service (obviously) doesn't work when the ADSL is down but all is well now thankyou. A prorata reduction in my Exetel line rental wouldn't be worth your time or mine.

Also apologies for the assumption on my part that the location of a central splitter/filter thing is normally in the roof.

I still stand by the suggestion that some discretion/consideration of history and other possibly relevant factors (instead of the very rigid inflexible tick-box approach) would benefit both parties in some instances when trying to identify and resolve a fault.

I might add that your assumption that borrowing a modem is no problem might not be the cae for everyone. Especially when you borrow it 3 times in 2 days as I needed to.

MCCMikey
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Contact:

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by MCCMikey » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:56 pm

A little off topic, but did you survive your visit to the Castle of Aaarggghhhhh? :) (Monty Python reference.)

Dazzled
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Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Dazzled » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:17 pm

What do you think? The Legendary Black Beast of .... enjoyed his lunch.

Lawrie
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:45 pm
Location: Unanderra

Re: Aaaarggghhhhh

Post by Lawrie » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:19 pm

Kirk

In reference to changing the profile from ADSL2 back to ADSL1, in my case I had a partial line fault that took Optus/Telstra a week to fix. In the meantime, my line was able to Sync using the ADSL1 profile, which got me up and running until the line fault was rectified, at which time I reminded the Exetel Technician to change the profile back to ADSL2.

I do admit that when first told about changing profiles, I had no idea what they were refering to, but after asking, it was explained to me and I was able to use the information to my benefit.

If the wiring in your street is 'dodgy', you may experience these problems again, and next time you will know how to work with the Exetel helpdesk process and it will go more smoothly than it did with this incident.

Lawrie

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