Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Connection issues, drop outs or speed related faults for ADSL and ADSL2+ services
ManUtdFans
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ManUtdFans » Thu May 06, 2010 10:03 am

I think Exetel made more and more customers unhappy and angry.
Exetel knows why they are so successful in retaining and getting more customers over the years: low price (or competitive price) with better off-peak time settings.

Now no reasons why the existing customers should still stay with Exetel.

ash.wednesday
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ash.wednesday » Thu May 06, 2010 10:05 am

Musicinbed wrote:I think that this was the right thing to do.

Exetel need to have the 'unlimited' name if they wish to compete in the future. This is the only way they can do that.
Perhaps now we can download to our hearts content in offpeak and not worry about going over our 'unlimited' quota? :P
What about those of us who did not opt to switch to the Unlimited plan? We're still stuffed..

ash.wednesday
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ash.wednesday » Thu May 06, 2010 10:15 am

CoreyPlover wrote: 2. $10 for a plan charge fee sounds completely reasonable to me, especially if your benefits are increasing as you incur the fee
I don't disagree that the $10 plan change is reasonable. But how are our benefits increasing when our usage time has essentially been cut in half? All this after only a month after the 'benefits' were implemented...

mily
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by mily » Thu May 06, 2010 10:16 am

ManUtdFans wrote:I think Exetel made more and more customers unhappy and angry.
Exetel knows why they are so successful in retaining and getting more customers over the years: low price (or competitive price) with better off-peak time settings.

Now no reasons why the existing customers should still stay with Exetel.
I guess that's right. I have been with Exetel for over 4 years, and I kept introducing exetel to friends who want a new connection. The point I always told them is that exetel provides unique 12 hours off-peak time, which makes TPG's 2~8am sneaky. One of my friend just signed up last month, and got connected two days before, now he will find out he will pay more and get less in the following months, just because he trusted me a couple weeks ago. I will feel shame when facing him.
Yes, halve the off-peak doesn't breach the contract, as long as exetel keeps an "off-peak period", even from 4am to 5am, and calls it "unlimited", the contract is still legally untouched. But the customers will always know the difference, making them unhappy and simply avoiding legal dispute isn't a smart act for your business.

ash.wednesday
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ash.wednesday » Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 am

ManUtdFans wrote:I think Exetel made more and more customers unhappy and angry.
Exetel knows why they are so successful in retaining and getting more customers over the years: low price (or competitive price) with better off-peak time settings.

Now no reasons why the existing customers should still stay with Exetel.
Agreed. While some here don't deny that Exetel's services are on par with those of a different ISP, the main reason I believe most of us here signed up for Exetel was because of the competitive pricing and reasonable offpeak hours and equivalent quota that went with it. Now with this decrease in offpeak hours but with the same peak quota and price, there is nothing setting you apart from the other providers. In fact, with this new developmet other ISPs are in fact providing a more competitive service for the same price point. So what's to keep us loyal users from staying after your treatment of us other than our contracts?

dtn22
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by dtn22 » Thu May 06, 2010 10:25 am

CoreyPlover wrote:
Again, another post that is full of inaccuracies:
1. When they removed added extras, they also increased peak time download quotas
2. $10 for a plan charge fee sounds completely reasonable to me, especially if your benefits are increasing as you incur the fee
3. Exetel do not throttle. Go and look up the laws of supply and demand. And also ask your exchange what its capacity is.
4. I will gladly make a bet with you about how much can be downloaded in a 6 hour window for 30 days of the month.
5. There is no aspect of Exetel's conduct that I think the ACCC or TIO will deem to be unfair.
6. You are correct: The "No exit fee" only applies if there is a change in contract. There has been no change in contract here.


1.Those extra is the main reason i signed up initally, it was an agreement in the contract.
2. For your info, Internode does not charge $10 at all if you want to change plan or even Optus.I understand if you on a higher income, what is there to complain about right? Im sure im not the only one claiming the $10 is excessive.
3.If Exetel dont throttle or block ftp during off peak then why am i having problem only during offpeak? A job had been raised 3 weeks already and its still not fix.
4.With the problem im having with my off peak at the moment and 6 hours of download instead of 12 im lucky to reach half of my download.
Last edited by dtn22 on Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

ManUtdFans
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ManUtdFans » Thu May 06, 2010 10:26 am

James wrote:Hi Ash Wednesday,

Please read your contract, particularly the bit about the AUP; http://www.exetel.com.au/a_acceptable_use.php

Start from section 9.

James
You may be right James.
However, to be a successful business, you need to have your customers happy otherwise, your business will be... unless you got the monopoly.
But Exetel does not have the monopoly.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 10:31 am

ash.wednesday wrote:
CoreyPlover wrote: 2. $10 for a plan charge fee sounds completely reasonable to me, especially if your benefits are increasing as you incur the fee
I don't disagree that the $10 plan change is reasonable. But how are our benefits increasing when our usage time has essentially been cut in half? All this after only a month after the 'benefits' were implemented...
3 months ago, you didn't have "unlimited off-peak" plans. While the off-peak time may get shortened in June (or later now), you still get the benefit of an increased off-peak quota that you didn't have back in January.

In March (not sure, but it was around the time of the $5 increase in plans) plans were changed to NF and then to Z plans, which generally had higher peak time download benefits for the same or less money

Prior to that, peak quotas were scaled up when Exetel had to modify their off-peak timing (back then it went from 12-12 to 2-12).

There are many, many examples, even in recent times, where Exetel have increased benefits across all plans, even those on contract.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

ManUtdFans
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ManUtdFans » Thu May 06, 2010 10:34 am

dtn22 wrote:Again, another post that is full of inaccuracies:
1. When they removed added extras, they also increased peak time download quotas
2. $10 for a plan charge fee sounds completely reasonable to me, especially if your benefits are increasing as you incur the fee
3. Exetel do not throttle. Go and look up the laws of supply and demand. And also ask your exchange what its capacity is.
4. I will gladly make a bet with you about how much can be downloaded in a 6 hour window for 30 days of the month.
5. There is no aspect of Exetel's conduct that I think the ACCC or TIO will deem to be unfair.
6. You are correct: The "No exit fee" only applies if there is a change in contract. There has been no change in contract here.


1.Those extra is the main reason i signed up initally, it was an agreement in the contract.
2. For your info, Internode does not charge $10 at all if you want to change plan or even Optus.I understand if you on a higher income, what is there to complain about right? Im sure im not the only one claiming the $10 is excessive.
3.If Exetel dont throttle or block ftp during off peak then why am i having problem only during offpeak? A job had been raised 3 weeks already and its still not fix.
4.With the problem im having with my off peak at the moment and 6 hours of download instead of 12 im lucky to reach half of my download.

"3. Exetel do not throttle. Go and look up the laws of supply and demand. And also ask your exchange what its capacity is."
- It does not mean Exetel do not throttle.
- They can manipulate my line speed. They just changed my line speed recently and now download speed is much faster than 2 months ago (actually my line speed was slow even after I swtiched to ADSL2+) after I complianed about my internet connection was down, they speeded up my line speed.

"4. I will gladly make a bet with you about how much can be downloaded in a 6 hour window for 30 days of the month."
- It depends on the time range, are you going to keep the pc on from mid-night till 8am? I don't know if the pc sits in your bedroom, may be not, but this is in my case. My pc sits in my bedroom.
- 6 hours for me is fine if the time range is 6am to 12pm.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 10:45 am

dtn22 wrote:
CoreyPlover wrote:Again, another post that is full of inaccuracies:
1. When they removed added extras, they also increased peak time download quotas
2. $10 for a plan charge fee sounds completely reasonable to me, especially if your benefits are increasing as you incur the fee
3. Exetel do not throttle. Go and look up the laws of supply and demand. And also ask your exchange what its capacity is.
4. I will gladly make a bet with you about how much can be downloaded in a 6 hour window for 30 days of the month.
5. There is no aspect of Exetel's conduct that I think the ACCC or TIO will deem to be unfair.
6. You are correct: The "No exit fee" only applies if there is a change in contract. There has been no change in contract here.
1.Those extra is the main reason i signed up initally, it was an agreement in the contract.
2. For your info, Internode does not charge $10 at all if you want to change plan or even Optus.I understand if you on a higher income, what is there to complain about right? Im sure im not the only one claiming the $10 is excessive.
3.If Exetel dont throttle or block ftp during off peak then why am i having problem only during offpeak? A job had been raised 3 weeks already and its still not fix.
4.With the problem im having with my off peak at the moment and 6 hours of download instead of 12 im lucky to reach half of my download.
1. If you are talking about free SMSes, etc, they were in the really old, grandfathered INCPHONE / ANYPHONE / NONPHONE plans. They only got removed after everyone's contract was up
2. Actually, you are one of a few you claim the $10 fee is excessive. Even the post several above yours states "I don't disagree that the $10 plan change is reasonable"
3. Congestion. Not throttling. This can be congestion on Exetel's network (links are maxing out, so this is highly likely and likely to be the reason for the off-peak shortening). But also, some geographical areas are affected worse than others because of other supply/demand pressures in play at the exchange level. For instance, I can download at 500KB/s - 1MB/s around 1am. Having said that, bandwidth allocated to P2P has the capacity to be throttled but my understanding is that the P2P caching system has replaced the NetEnforcer throttling that Exetel used to have and so no throttling, even on P2P, takes place at the moment
4. Are you using P2P to perform most of your downloads? Because I (and others) have found that the quality of seeding in P2P networks is greatly reduced from what it used to be. Are you in Brisbane? Because lots of posts are highlighting specific slow speeds in Brisbane over the last few weeks or so that should hopefully be rectified in the ordinary course of events. Also, what is half of "unlimited"? While I do not dispute that your connection might be adversely suffering from the effects of congestion, I maintain that my connection is operating at a capacity that could easily achieve about 250GB /month assuming 6 hours of off-peak downloading per day.

When making comments to an ISP-wide forum, you sometimes need to have a wider view of experience before decreeing Exetel to be "throttling everyone". Having said that, you have a vested interest in your own and your household's expereince and if you feel that your service would improve upon switching Carriers then it is an option that you should consider. But I really think there are more important things in life than getting worked up about internet congestion.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 10:57 am

ManUtdFans wrote:"3. Exetel do not throttle. Go and look up the laws of supply and demand. And also ask your exchange what its capacity is."
- It does not mean Exetel do not throttle.
- They can manipulate my line speed. They just changed my line speed recently and now download speed is much faster than 2 months ago (actually my line speed was slow even after I swtiched to ADSL2+) after I complianed about my internet connection was down, they speeded up my line speed.
Just because Exetel *can* throttle, is not proof that they *do*. They have firmly denied throttling on many occasions and my own experience confirms this.

The line speed change you experienced is because the Carrier would have had a stability profile left-over on your service capping your modem's sync speeds. When Exetel is made aware of this oversight, they simply remove the profile. No maliciousness or throttling is taking place.
ManUtdFans wrote:"4. I will gladly make a bet with you about how much can be downloaded in a 6 hour window for 30 days of the month."
- It depends on the time range, are you going to keep the pc on from mid-night till 8am? I don't know if the pc sits in your bedroom, may be not, but this is in my case. My pc sits in my bedroom.
- 6 hours for me is fine if the time range is 6am to 12pm.
There are many options available to you which would enable you to harness the 2am-8am off-peak window. Do you have an ultra noisy computer that prevents sleep? If so, invest in a more silent computer, or a netbook that you can locate in a different room. You can now even get routers which have a hard drive in them that can schedule downloads themselves without any need for a computer.

The entire purpose of off-peak as a high quota download period is that it is not convenient for everyone. It operates on the same principles as off-peak electricity rates (water heaters that operate overnight, etc).
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

dtn22
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by dtn22 » Thu May 06, 2010 11:07 am

For your info CoreyPlover,my plan is still current. The free txt,fax and voip were removed when i were on my 5th months of my contract, thats why i got so pissed off. On a good day the max i get is around 200kbps during off peak and 400 during peak. Therefore unlike you i can never reach 60gb of my offpeak allowance.

PaulT
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by PaulT » Thu May 06, 2010 11:15 am

This move seems to indicate that a particular group of users were costing Exetel more than their plans were worth. A business needs to protect its existence and for most customers, it is also in their interests for the business to take those steps necessary to be viable in the longer term. At a guess, the move targets customers who download lots in off-peak and are on plans with lower peak download allowances. They probably cost Exetel money and I'm sure Exetel would be happy for you to churn. This also means there must be other customers who are subsidising those loss making customers.

A business can't maintain that in the long run unless it is a monopoly. Otherwise another business or service starts up providing cheaper services to those customers providing the subsidy and suddenly the price or conditions need to change for the loss make customers. And as Exetel knows, those low usage users who were subsidising high usage ADSL users are moving to wireless. Bye bye subsidy. Hello cost recovery.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 11:20 am

dtn22 wrote:For your info CoreyPlover,my plan is still current. The free txt,fax and voip were removed when i were on my 5th months of my contract, thats why i got so pissed off.
What plan? Did you elect to change plans in light of the $5 increase, or something like that? My understanding was that there is no loss of extras for contracted plans
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

PaulT
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by PaulT » Thu May 06, 2010 11:26 am

Catfish wrote:...
What I have noticed recently is that the 12Gb peak limit is rather limiting in this day and age of data transfer. For the last few months I have barely d/l anything at all peak or off peak. My wife, who is not so computer savvy just uses internet as she will. She only uses Facebook, ebay, Yahoo email and will occasionally watch episodes of Bold and Beautiful and Neighbours from Ten's website if she misses them. My usage comprises of Facebook, email, IRC (low usage) and the occasional Youtube videos. This type of usage almost consumes our entire peak period limit. Suprising to say the least.
Did something change while I was asleep? Video has always been a big bandwidth consumer. That's why PVRs have 250Gb hard drives and movie DVDs are dual layer 8+Gb. The problem is that it is now hidden in what was historically a lower bandwidth application, the web browser. This is no longer so. Even navigating http://www.smh.com.au will consume lots of bandwidth if you let it.

I suspect the problem for Exetel is that more and more users have become like Catfish - using off peak to watch video, allow sites to default to high bandwidth consumption, or download other things. However the more people who use it, the more it costs Exetel. They either cut back the "unlimited" or put up prices.

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