Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Connection issues, drop outs or speed related faults for ADSL and ADSL2+ services
CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 3:45 pm

ronm wrote: Also shaping is being introduced, one of the reasons I joined Exetel was because they didn't have shaping.
Even though shaping is being introduced on all plans, users will still have the ability to purchase "data packs" to effectively retain an unshaped experience.
Correction:You have the ability to effect a one-only switch to 50c/GB excess after starting the new plans
ronm wrote:We poor ADSL1 users suffer again, some of us can't get ADSL2 in spite of the governments brave new world.
ADSL1 is very difficult for Exetel to provide in a cost-effective manner; you can thank Telstra for that. And the fact that you can't get ADSL2+; you can thank Labor for that.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

tc4101
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by tc4101 » Thu May 06, 2010 4:07 pm

hey corey, what is the new 512kb shaping like? when i used to be chaped on the 64kb speed, i could hardly get gamil to load or even exetel home page.

ManUtdFans
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ManUtdFans » Thu May 06, 2010 4:32 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
ManUtdFans wrote:BUT, I am angry, so I will go to resturant A, because I am angry.
Prime example of irrational behaviour actually. You are "angry" when in actuality, you shouldn't be. Human nature I guess.
ManUtdFans wrote:Don't you see what is happening?
I see a whole lot of people getting worked up over...what? One of two things:
1. Instead of being able to download "ultra massive" quantities of stuff, they are now only able to download "large" quantities of stuff
2. Constant amendments to their service and conditions

I can understand the frustration. And I agree Exetel could have done things differently. But, take a breath and step back. Look at the service that you have and the service that you will have come September...It is a good, value-for-money service. Exetel constantly "innovate" and "modify" in an attempt to provide users with the best low priced service. Sometimes, this doesn't work and creates angst. However, most of the time it does work and users benefit. Hit and miss really, and while the last week / month may have been a "miss" just look back at all the "hits" you've benefited from in the past (massively high quotas that are constantly increased even while you are in contract, shaping *options* (few other ISPs provided the *option* to shape), free benefits (that have since been removed, sure, but you did derive benefits from them), Email-to-SMS/Fax/etc and vice versa, ultra cheap wireless that competitors are only now starting to match, etc).

All I'm saying is, try to be reasonable, empathetic and recognise that there are many, many more important things in life than how much you can download on an internet connection.
No, you are trying to mislead us.

"All I'm saying is, try to be reasonable, empathetic and recognise that there are many, many more important things in life than how much you can download on an internet connection"
If this is what your point, I will suggest Exetel, come on, discard the off-peak period or set to 2am to 4am, how is that sound?

The thing is for me, it is still more than enough, 30 GB in peak-period (that's my current plan). Extel is trying to get customers changing plans, looks like a good deal, but minutes later it pull it back although that's not exactly pulling back.

"Look at the service that you have and the service that you will have come September...It is a good, value-for-money service"
That is totally wrong. It is no longer good, value-for-money at all, it's just the same service as other ISPs, no standing out any more.

RyanC
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by RyanC » Thu May 06, 2010 4:56 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
RyanC wrote:http://www.tio.com.au/make_a_complaint.htm

Paying to switch accross to a 'Unlimited' 12am-12pm plan and then the next month it being taken off you isn't fair. File a complaint with the TIO. The more people that do, the more the TIO are likely to do something. (not to mention each complaint will hit the hip pocket of these greddy and incompetent idiots running this place).
I can not find a single part of this post which is correct in any way.
1. The "Unlimited" part of the plans have not been "taken away". It has simply been "shortened".
2. The Acceptable Usage Policy and the plan's T&C allow modification, or even complete removal, of off-peak bonus downloads. You accepted these policies when you commenced your contract
3. The TIO cannot handle complaints about charges. They are also an office of "last resort", not first resort. So I suggest you stop scaremongering and making empty threats
4. Exetel are not greedy by any definition of the word. From admission of everyone one this thread, users here are of the opinion that Exetel is now equal value to competitors' services
5. Posting that Exetel are incompetent idiots constitutes slander.

One crucial of these forums is that people post in a civil manner. In hindsight, Exetel's treatment of unlimited plans could have been handled better. But hindsight is an ability that is only available to naysayers. How about offering concrete suggestions for future services rather than griping?
1) Yes it has been "shortened" which means that Exetel have taken away half of our off-peak downloading time and left me with a off-peak time that I don't find suitable to my needs.

2)Irrelevant of what the AUP says, to one month offer new unlimited off-peak plans and then charge people to move accross to them yet then next month retract half of that time is basically deceptive conduct. I made the choice to change plans based on the price and quotas offered, had I of known that this was going to happen I would of not paid the $10 to change. Unless of course there has been a sudden doubling in the cost of Exetel's IP data contracts this month that came out of the blue I fail to see how luring people to pay to change plans then straight away changing the terms is not deceptive and misleading conduct. (somehow I daresay the ACCC will also share the same view)

3) Well going off comments in here I don't see how ringing up and leaving a ticket to some Columbian office is going to help me out seeing as Exetel seem to not be budging, so might aswell go straight to the TIO. Funny about that also is they seem to have given me a number to a higher level complaints resoultion team in Sydney and said if I don't recieve a satisfactory response to recontact them. No mention of it's out of their jurisdiction. But I guess it's in your best interest to tell people not to contact the TIO....

4) Exetel are becoming increasingly greedy with their constant price rises and stripping of plan inclusions. You would think that with a growing customer base you could actually negotiate cheaper IP data contracts and offer price reductions if anything.

Yes Exetel are now in line with other ISPs in terms of pricing. lets not forget though that Exetel don't offer things such as free modems with contracts nor a proper Help Desk like other ISPs offer. So there was always the expectation that Exetel will provide a cheaper service because of this compared to other ISPs.

5) If offering and charging for people to move to a plan one month and then the next saying that oh we cant do this anymore and have to cut out half of the inclusions isn't called incompetence then what is? It shows a complete lack of planning and proper, thorough thinking on Exetel management's behalf. If you find the word incompetent or idiot to be considered offensive language I think it's time to take a reality check, because I doubt many grown adults would consider that offensive language! :lol:

As for a suggestion? how about leaving it the same as it has always been for the last upteen with 50-60GB 12am-12pm off-peak... But whats the point of even saying that because no it seems Exetel are set on trying to manipulate the use of "Unlimited" just to try and attract the likes of those lured to AAPT and TPG

But going by the response here and on Whirlpool I daresay you're going to get quite alot of bad PR plus a decent percentage of people churning off to better providers...

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 4:58 pm

tc4101 wrote:hey corey, what is the new 512kb shaping like? when i used to be chaped on the 64kb speed, i could hardly get gamil to load or even exetel home page.
I haven't experienced it yet. I probably won't either as I prefer to maintain an unshaped connection
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 5:02 pm

ManUtdFans wrote:"All I'm saying is, try to be reasonable, empathetic and recognise that there are many, many more important things in life than how much you can download on an internet connection"
If this is what your point, I will suggest Exetel, come on, discard the off-peak period or set to 2am to 4am, how is that sound?
I have seen several posts giving suggestions to ForumAdmin and he seems more than willing to take them under consideration. As he says, the landscape for ADSL is constantly changing and Exetel is always seeking to adapt to suit. Having said that, what would be the purpose of your suggestion? There is a middle ground to be determined here; one that balances download quotas against congestion. Removal of off-peak has been raised before, but that doesn't really help to manage bandwidth fluctuations or give any extra value back to users, does it?
ManUtdFans wrote:"Look at the service that you have and the service that you will have come September...It is a good, value-for-money service"
That is totally wrong. It is no longer good, value-for-money at all, it's just the same service as other ISPs, no standing out any more.
While it may not be "outstanding" value for money anymore, it is still "great" value-for-money (in my opinion at least). We are all entitled to our own opinions and should you feel that this change has been severely detrimental to you, you should email complaints@exetel.com.au.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Dazzled
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by Dazzled » Thu May 06, 2010 6:50 pm

RyanC are you fair dinkum?
lets not forget though that Exetel don't offer things such as free modems with contracts nor a proper Help Desk like other ISPs offer.
I sincerely hope this doesn't mean you approve the con jobs that happen in some places.

Try and get help with Asterix, or Linux, or VoIP on a mobile phone OS, or even a phone, elsewhere, on a deliberately damaged modem/router.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 8:26 pm

RyanC wrote:2)Irrelevant of what the AUP says, [it] is basically deceptive conduct...Had I of known that this was going to happen I would of not paid the $10 to change.
As above, if you feel you have been detrimentally affected, email complaints@exetel.com.au and senior management will review. The forums are not suitable for those matters.
RyanC wrote:3) ...might aswell go straight to the TIO.
Considering you have not attempted to even contact Exetel, I'm quite sure of the outcome that you will ultimately obtain via this pathway.
RyanC wrote:4) Exetel are becoming increasingly greedy... You would think that with a growing customer base you could actually negotiate cheaper IP data contracts and offer price reductions if anything.
Because of the lower IP costs, Exetel have provided higher download quotas. This has caused congestion so in the interest of users, it needs to be managed. There is no issue of greed at play and there never has been.
RyanC wrote:Yes Exetel are now in line with other ISPs in terms of pricing. lets not forget though that Exetel don't offer things such as free modems with contracts nor a proper Help Desk like other ISPs offer.
Missing gimmicks like modems have mainly been offset by shorter contract and increasing benefits to users while still on contract. Think about why other companies offer free modems: it is because they are making at least the cost of the modem in profits. Exetel make around $1 profit per service per month. And since my service has been flawless ever since I can remember I can't really comment on the "properness" of the Help desk.
RyanC wrote:5)It shows a complete lack of planning and proper, thorough thinking on Exetel management's behalf. If you find the word incompetent or idiot to be considered offensive language I think it's time to take a reality check, because I doubt many grown adults would consider that offensive language! :lol:
It shows that the effect was different to that which Exetel predicted. Running a business and trying to predict future demands on a new product is a massively hard task. I do not consider "incompetent" or "idiot" to be offensive language at all. I said it "constitutes slander" which means it falsely damages the reputation of another. Moreover, I consider it to be rude and a sign that the individual does not have the vocabulary to summarise the issue nor the patience or insight to give constructive alternatives.
RyanC wrote:As for a suggestion? how about leaving it the same as it has always been for the last upteen with 50-60GB 12am-12pm off-peak...
It may well come to that. I, for one, would support such a change.
RyanC wrote:But going by the response here and on Whirlpool I daresay you're going to get quite alot of bad PR plus a decent percentage of people churning off to better providers...
Possibly. But past patterns have paradoxically shown that Whirlpool rants against Exetel actually increase Exetel's user base. Might be the adage that all publicity is good publicity, but more likely to be the fact that lots of internet savvy people see the rants, check the facts against these forums, etc and realise Exetel is actually a good ISP.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

rocknrolla007
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by rocknrolla007 » Thu May 06, 2010 9:11 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:I absolutely get the point, but imagine the following:
* Company A offers a plan that you rate as, let us say, 85 out of 100
* Company B offers a plan that you rate as, say, 90 or 95 out of 100, but then 1 month later make an announcement that they are making changes. After those changes, you rate the plan as 85 out of 100

How can you rationally say that Company B is worse than Company A? For whatever frustration you may feel, they are still offering something equal (actually in my opinion, still better) than the competitors.

Personally, I prefer Exetel's hit-and-miss constant innovation. n my opinion, they hit more often than they miss and I'd rather take this sort of chance and get additions to my plan while on contract than be stuck in a different company's 12 month contract, without any benefits added while the ADSL landscape around me is constantly changing.

Besides which, read the update. Reduced off-peak will *not* apply to people on contract, and will only begin to apply in September for everyone else.
Taking your example
I rated Company A 85/100
I rated Company B 95/100 and opted for them.
Now Company B changes its services and no longer deserves an 95 but an 85. Yes mathematically they are now rated the same as Company A but because I had originally opted for Company B over Company, I feel let down. Thats the issue here. I no longer feel like being a loyal customer to Company B because they no longer cared about getting a 95 now once I had already opted for them.

Possibly. But past patterns have paradoxically shown that Whirlpool rants against Exetel actually increase Exetel's user base. Might be the adage that all publicity is good publicity, but more likely to be the fact that lots of internet savvy people see the rants, check the facts against these forums, etc and realise Exetel is actually a good ISP.
You dont really believe that do you??
Yes Exetel has been a very very good ISP..the best in Australia so far..I have always recommended Exetel to everyone..every time someone I know was looking for an internet connection, I have recommended Exetel. My argument has always been, the value for money. With this change in off peak period, the argument no longer stands, as Exetel no longer deserves that extra 10 marks and stops being the best ISP in the country. Exetel can choose to not accept this and live in denial like they have been so far.
As I said before, what impression this gives is that once Exetel managed to get 95 and attract customers, it now no longer cares about maintaining that higher score.
Last edited by rocknrolla007 on Fri May 07, 2010 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu May 06, 2010 11:28 pm

rocknrolla007 wrote:I feel let down. Thats the issue here
Understandable. I can only implore you see what develops. Exetel have a proven track record of doing (or trying to do) what is ultimately best for end users. For example, several months ago when congestion was previously an issue, Exetel moved everybody's off-peak to 2-12. A month later they had dealt with the issue and allowed movement back to a 12-12 offering via new plans (without contract extensions).
rocknrolla007 wrote:You dont really believe that do you??
Yes, I do believe that this held true the past few "crises" that Exetel has been through. This current kerfuffle will probably be the biggest test of it of course.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

skyrex
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by skyrex » Fri May 07, 2010 8:46 am

Wow, some people are very narrow minded. As much as it is dis-heartening to hear the general census is unimpressed about the changes. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have also recently paid the $10 plan change fee (Yes, only $10 or ~2.5 two beers in todays coin) but in doing so my peak quota has extended from 18gb to 30gb without any extra monthy charge. I am stoked.
As for the off peak allowances as per contract, I see it as a bonus to have some "free time" to play on the internets without it contributing to peak quota.
If you are seriously that concerned about not being able to squeeze all of your usage into the off peak period, as to not accrue usage on what you really are paying for (peak quota allowance and speed) maybe the only option is to quit while you're ahead and just churn...
I was previously with Internode, and while I never had a single issue with their service quality while I was with them, I know where I will be staying... This side of the fence thank you. :)

ManUtdFans
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by ManUtdFans » Fri May 07, 2010 10:05 am

skyrex wrote: If you are seriously that concerned about not being able to squeeze all of your usage into the off peak period, as to not accrue usage on what you really are paying for (peak quota allowance and speed) maybe the only option is to quit while you're ahead and just churn...
Wow, you are in-line with Exetel...
Just walk away if we don't like it, exactly what Exetel said in most of their emails. :evil:

skyrex wrote:I was previously with Internode, and while I never had a single issue with their service quality while I was with them, I know where I will be staying... This side of the fence thank you. :)
Why didn't you still stick with Internode?
You are looking for service quality or price?

rocknrolla007
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by rocknrolla007 » Fri May 07, 2010 10:58 am

Skyrex,

If you are not affected by the reduction in off peak period, thats great..but there are a lot of us exetel customers who are..and this topic is about that. No need to call someone who does not share your view narrow minded. Not being able to accept someone else's concerns is what is narrow minded.

pyrosx
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by pyrosx » Fri May 07, 2010 11:29 am

Start from section 9.
Now i'm very confused. The AUP that you linked does NOT have a section 9.

Section 9 in the Ts and Cs is about payment, and I can't find anything in the entire document that refers to off peak or free periods.

Please advise the document and clause that keeps being referred to by Exetel.

(For the record, i'm not overly unhappy about the change - i've just been trying to find this 'legal right' clause that has been mentioned, and am unable to do so).

Cheers

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri May 07, 2010 11:46 am

There used to be a section 9 in http://www.exetel.com.au/a_acceptable_use_adsl2.php about how the off peak can be varied at any time

What looks to have happened is that plans are now generic "xGB then 512kbps shaping" meaning there is no longer a distinction between peak and off-peak, hence no longer a need for section 9. Being shaped (with the one-off option to switch to a $0.50/GB excess usage basis) implies that all new plans are effectively unlimited now.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

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