Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Connection issues, drop outs or speed related faults for ADSL and ADSL2+ services
pyrosx
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by pyrosx » Fri May 07, 2010 11:52 am

CoreyPlover wrote:There used to be a section 9 in http://www.exetel.com.au/a_acceptable_use_adsl2.php about how the off peak can be varied at any time

What looks to have happened is that plans are now generic "xGB then 512kbps shaping" meaning there is no longer a distinction between peak and off-peak, hence no longer a need for section 9. Being shaped (with the one-off option to switch to a $0.50/GB excess usage basis) implies that all new plans are effectively unlimited now.
That's not the contract I signed up for a week ago....

I'm even more confused now - how can anyone say "our policy gives us the right to change X", and then go and change said policy so that it doesnt even MENTION X anymore?

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri May 07, 2010 12:05 pm

Basically, your T&C states that you must abide by the Acceptable Usage Policy and that this Acceptable Usage Policy is subject to change:
Clause 1.1: Acceptable Use Policy means Exetel's acceptable use policy (as modified from time to time) which may be found on http://www.exetel.com.au/a_acceptable_use.php.
Clause 6.3d: When using the Service, the Customer must comply with the Acceptable Use Policy
So the applicable AUP is the one on the website, but the T&C that is shown on the website is for the newest plans only, and the newest plans don't seem to have any distinction between peak / off-peak anymore. I guess if you wish to get a copy of the one you signed up to, you should probably email billing@exetel.com.au. My understanding is that off-peak usage falls under Acceptable Usage; it is a "bonus" allocation that can be removed at Exetel's dicretion
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

pyrosx
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Location: Sydney

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by pyrosx » Fri May 07, 2010 12:16 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:My understanding is that off-peak usage falls under Acceptable Usage; it is a "bonus" allocation that can be removed at Exetel's dicretion
Except that, because its been removed, it no longer falls under the AUP.....?

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri May 07, 2010 12:31 pm

pyrosx wrote:Except that, because its been removed, it no longer falls under the AUP.....?
An interesting argument, but one that I don't think will hold. Your T&C still have general clauses about abuse, "unusually high activity", etc
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

McPop
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 9:16 pm
Location: Qld

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by McPop » Fri May 07, 2010 1:18 pm

This is really poor. Exetel are deliberately antagonising their customers in the hope they will jump ship. The wording of their emails is disrespectful and the donotreply sender email address is infuriating.

The way I see it, they tried to differentiate themselves from the rest of the marketplace and now can't compete. The solution is to disenfranchise the users that cost them the most money and hope they walk, leaving behind "average" users who signed up for more quota than they really need.

Then, citing the contract that we agreed to as if it was some magical shield is insult to the injury. It seems that Exetel's word isn't worth the contract it is written on. Depending on the day of the week the contract will change to the detriment of the customer. Even though the conditions are in the contract, I have grave doubts that this part of the contract is legal according to the Trade Practices Act. Bait and switch advertising anyone? Perhaps the ACCC will decide.

And the recent drop in ADSL2+ speeds is also suspicious. But the magic shield is also being employed to deflect any complaints because they don't guarantee service levels in the contract.

I think that this not only needs to be referred to the ACCC, but a grassroots campaign needs to be taken to the whirlpool forums. It seems the only time companies listen to customer complaints is when the customers are sick of the company not listening and start talking to everyone else. Surely any other potential Exetel customer should be well informed as to the nature of this circus and then they can decide if they want to touch these jokers with a twenty foot clown pole.

I, for one, am sick of it all and will be walking and talking at the end of my contract. It is about respect...and there is none around here, in either direction.

It is probably what they want, but they are not what I want.

McPop.

peteru
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Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Plan changes and switch fees.

Post by peteru » Fri May 07, 2010 2:20 pm

I'll limit my comments to the "$10 Switch Fee", which I think is very unreasonable. Through various blog entries and other comments made by John Linton and other Exetel staff, we can assume the following:
  1. Exetel profit target is about $1 per month per customer.
  2. Exetel systems are highly automated to eliminate costs associated with customer management.
  3. Plan changes are restricted to coincide with the change in the next billing cycle to keep things simple.
  4. It costs $10 to switch plans.
  5. Switching plans is a simple automated change in the database.
  6. Costs of providing IP connectivity are coming down.
  7. Costs of providing ADSL lines are not coming down.
Given the above, these are the reasons why the "$10 Switch Fee" is not reasonable:
  1. There is no cost to Exetel to switch the plans.
  2. The fee for switching is equivalent of 10 months (almost a year) of profits for Exetel. Making users switch once every 10 months doubles Exetel profits!
  3. Many customers are "encouraged" to switch by having their existing plans changed in unfavourable ways, such as $5 admin fee, reduction in off-peak hours, removal of bundled services, etc.
  4. The cost of providing a service to an individual user stays the same or decreases over time as long as the usage pattern for that customer doesn't increase radically.
In the grand scheme of things, I'd prefer it if the profit target for Exetel was a little more than $1 (say $2-$3) with no switch fees and a slightly better capacity to iron out a few of the bumps to keep the initial deal alive longer. After all, paying $47/month and not feeling like I'm riding the stock market is a lot more palatable than paying $45/month and feeling like the rug is being pulled from under my feet every month. Sure, if the commercial pressures get to the point that the original deal is no longer workable, then offer new plans for out of contract customers, but drop the switch fee. If having long contracts complicates this, then shorten or remove the contract period.

nightfighter
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Location: VIC

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by nightfighter » Fri May 07, 2010 2:31 pm

Has offpeak been completely scrapped in today's new plans or am i reading it wrong?

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri May 07, 2010 2:35 pm

nightfighter wrote:Has offpeak been completely scrapped in today's new plans or am i reading it wrong?
I read it as off-peak being scrapped. Effectively, you now get a flat download quota for use at any time day or night, and once you exceed this, either an unlimited 512kbps shaped connection, or if you choose the option for excess charges, flat rate of $0.50/GB. Once you choose the excess option you cannot revert to the shaped option.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

skyrex
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Newcastle, NSW

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by skyrex » Fri May 07, 2010 2:37 pm

ManUtdFans wrote:Wow, you are in-line with Exetel...
Just walk away if we don't like it, exactly what Exetel said in most of their emails. :evil:

Why didn't you still stick with Internode?
You are looking for service quality or price?
Sorry, I don't consider myself to be inline with any company. I was implying with this and the narrow minded comment (which in hind-sight now was a bit harsh, I apologise) in Australia we thankfully have freedom of choice, if for whatever reason Exetel no longer meet requirements of service or their standards/quality of service plummeted I would simply churn. No complaints, no second chance, I'd hit the churn button and let the ship sink/move on with life/insert cliche here.
Many times I have found with other companies (non-ISP), complaining generally does nothing for me but induce high-blood pressure and arhythmia.
The most powerful thing I feel you can do to a company is no longer be their customer. Loyalty in my view doesn't mean now what it used to in the business world.

I didn't stay with Internode simply because at the time I was paying $25 line rental via Telstra and $40 to Internode for a measly 5gb a month. Nothing wrong with service quality, only quantity really. Internode couldn't offer me anything comparable so business with them was finished.
So I churned to Exetel with at the time 8gb/xx-gb quota and faster speed. Then over time, quota's kept creeping up and up with no change in price until it got to 18gb/54gb for me.
Then a while after that Exetel advised it would cost me another $5-10 a month to keep my existing plan which they had long taken off the market. So I paid the cost for a month or two (possibly three) being that they had been generous enough with quota increments, I didn't see a problem and was happy to pay. Then about 2-3 weeks ago I noticed the current plans on offer and I noticed I could go back to what I was paying and still get more again, so I did.

So yea, at the end of the day this whole shamble is essentially a matter of personal view of value for money and weather after all Exetel has done for you, you are willing to give a bit of old fashioned loyalty or exercise your freedom of choice and head to greener pastures. Any company's product either meets your requirements, or it doesn't.

Why use a Kia Rio to tow the family caravan, straining it's proverbial off to move it, than 4.0L Failcon that just cruises along no worries?

peteru
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by peteru » Fri May 07, 2010 2:47 pm

In the interest of being constructive, I offer another suggestion.

First, I must say I'm not a big fan of "unlimited" plans or other unrealistic promises. Chances are that unlimited plans won't attract the customers that Exetel wants/can afford. Furthermore, I think the "unlimited" moniker sets unrealistic expectations for naive/greedy users and will possibly raise suspicions with sophisticated customers.

I like the idea of having low access cost to the ADSL2+ infrastructure and a very competitive data cost. I'm in an area not serviced by an Optus exchange. I connect via a Powertel DSLAM and have to pay Telstra line rental. From my point of view, I'd find something like this appealing:
  • $20/month ADSL2+ connection with 5GB peak, 5GB offpeak.
  • noon-midnight peak, midnight-noon offpeak.
  • $0.50/GB peak
  • $0.25/GB offpeak
Some of the attractions of this plan would be:
  • Low cost for low use.
  • Fair pay for what you use scheme.
  • Generous off peak period.
  • Pricing structure to encourage offpeak use.
  • Allowances that do not encourage peak/offpeak congestion and do not create a sharp usage spike.
  • Pricing that discourages leeching of hundreds of GBs just because you can.
The line access price should be as low as possible without running a loss. If it could come down to the $10 mark, that would be great, but I understand that line access cost is outside of Exetel control. The data prices will hopefully come down in price over time as the cost of IP delivery decreases. This is where Exetel would need to revise pricing from time to time to stay competitive.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri May 07, 2010 4:17 pm

I think the current "xGB per month for $y per month" is going to do quite well at alleviating congestion. Regular downloaders will maintain current patterns, as the xGB is sufficient for their needs. Under the new style plans, ultra high downloaders will simply download 24/7 at a shaped rate and such flat and constant usage is actually easier to provision for and should lead to fairly high efficiency of links.

peteru, not sure if the values of $10 - $20 are too low, but this structure you propose is similar to a previous suggestion with similar structure where data downloaded in a certain period (off-peak) only adds to your quota at half or quarter rate. This has the advantage of catering for both shaped and unshaped options and, as with your suggestion, provides incentives for medium / heavy downloaders to utilise download schedulers int he early am hours when people are asleep.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

xsdv
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:16 pm

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by xsdv » Fri May 07, 2010 7:24 pm

Hi all,

I don't really log on to the forums but I keep on getting these Exetel emails - the last one of which pushed me to look up the gossip on the forums.

After reading the first 3 pages (skipped straigh to the sixth after that) I'm going to probably stay on with Exetel. I have a few friends who download like there's no tomorrow. Sometimes in the order of 150-200Gigabytes per month. Downloading every american sitcom and movie I guess :lol: that's their perogative - but what annoyed me was the slowness after midnight. It was sometimes very very noticeable.

I don't think there's too much to worry about - taking a step back and looking at our technology as a whole - the cost of transmitting a gigabyte of data both wirelessly and via wired networks follow very predictable exponential curves, in 5-10 years our $65/month will be buying 500-1Terabyte of download.......... so if you can hold out a little longer Exetel would be able to perhaps exceed all these great plans (and obviously all the competitors will, too).

Cheers.

Shonky
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:19 pm

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by Shonky » Fri May 07, 2010 8:30 pm

And they've changed their mind again/ within days. This is getting stupid. No... this is stupid.

30GB peak / 60GB off peak -> 24GB peak / 12h unlimited off peak -$10 decrease -> 30GB peak / 6h unlimited off peak -> 60GB anytime +$5 increase (The last three in the space of a week)

WTF? Bait and and switch. End of story. I'd be p****d if I had just paid connection fees etc to transfer over. And leaving costs the user more money so don't dare offer that up as an "solution". What a complete and utter farce.

roby
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:18 am
Location: MELBOURNE

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by roby » Fri May 07, 2010 10:37 pm

I can understand the reduction in off peak the thing I am not happy about is I just changed my plan and paid $10 transfer fee if I knew this was happening I would have gone to a different plan now I may have to change again and pay another $10 transfer fee

tjioer
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:25 am
Location: Rockdale

Re: Off-Peak time reduction-This is a joke

Post by tjioer » Sat May 08, 2010 10:48 am

ForumAdmin wrote:
tjioer wrote:
ForumAdmin wrote: There will be no change to any current customer's plans off peak period in the foreseeable future.
Didn't John Linton send an email advising we have until 1 September before the Off Peak changes to 2-8am?
Times change.

Exetel is no longer intending to change the off peak times for any plans that have an off peak period.

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