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Did I miss something?

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:14 pm
by Mort
A recent topic of mine was locked, which in itself doesn't bother me, but the closing post by the "ForumAdmin" seems to have been a bit on the harsh side
http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.ph ... 203#201203

I assume it is not the same ForumAdmin that had been participating in the later part of the conversation up to that point?

I realise this is a help forum, and that is what I was requesting and attempting to do for other users, so I don't understand the reason for the way that thread was closed. It may have been deviating slightly off topic on a couple of posts, but even so...

I guess in effect, my question did relate to the third of the two options offered by the ForumAdmin in that post, however I was not aware it was in my power to raise issues with your wholesale provider to question them on the sections of the network outside your control.

I'm guessing the ForumAdmin that made the last post hadn't read the whole thread to see where the conversation went before locking it.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:03 pm
by ForumAdmin
I closed it.

It had run its course.

Having ensured that there was no contention on any part of the Exetel infrastructure that affects Tasmanian Exetel users there can be no purpose served by a 'generic' Tasmanian thread on this help forum.

There may well be individual issues but if there is currenty a real issue with the Tas/Vic Optus backhaul no amount of posting here will produce any result.

Mort, if anything could be done by Exetel either previously, right now or in the future it will be done.

It always has been.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:16 pm
by Mort
That thread had nothing to do with Tasmanian users or Vic/Tasmania backhaul in particular though? Are you sure you are referring to the correct thread?

I am not disputing the thread had (finally) been answered, just the manner in which it was closed. After having a quite civil response to explain what the Exetel position was, then followed by basically being told off for posting it didn't make much sense.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:53 am
by ForumAdmin
Mort wrote:That thread had nothing to do with Tasmanian users or Vic/Tasmania backhaul in particular though? Are you sure you are referring to the correct thread?

I am not disputing the thread had (finally) been answered, just the manner in which it was closed. After having a quite civil response to explain what the Exetel position was, then followed by basically being told off for posting it didn't make much sense.
Mort, if you feel that I "told you off" then I apologise - I had no intention of doing that.

It had more to do with a d***headed PM from another poster that, late at night in a very, very difficult and very, very tiring week, finally got under my skin.

To put that level of annoyance in context perhaps reading that 'exchange' with a participant on that thread at around 11 pm last night wll demonstrate how very, very angry I was:

PARTICIPANT:

"The careless attitude to Tasmanian customers you displayed in the forum is a disgrace - if you keep that up, customers are going to leave in droves. I work in the IT industry and would certainly not recommend Exetel after that display."

MY REPLY:

"This is a help forum and several pages of the same type of post were getting no-one anywhere in terms of helping them with any issue.

There is a limit to what any individual or company can do.

I set out that situation exactly as it is and will always be.

You had already made your point that you considered other ISPs to be more suitable - iiNet and Internode (not that those statements help anyone on this forum) - perhaps you should be the first person to take your own advice.

Having built Exetel from ground zero to whatever it is today I am of the opinion that I have a better understanding of the abilities and inabilities of providing various services in various parts of Australia - I also work more than 12 hours each day doing my very best to ensure that the services that Exetel provides are as good a service, to all of its users, as it is possible to do.

A few cheap shots and pathetic umbrage don't cut it as sensible input compared to my efforts and the efforts of so many other dedicated people at Exetel.

Grow up - and face the fact that networks sometime aren't provisioned as well as end users might wish them to be... and nothing you or I or any one else at Exetel can change that situation. (nor can the efforts of anyone else in any other ISP on such occasions irrespective of what you might think).

Should you believe that you know better than I do, and who knows maybe you do, then avail yourself of your own knowledge and advice.

Please don't waste any more of my time - unlike you I work this late at night to make things as good as they can be for Exetel users."


followed by this morning:

PARTICIPANT:

"It might be best to drop the attitude and start listening to customers. I have been happy with Exetel (great new sevices like SMS and Fax via email) up until the last few weeks and maybe you would realise that the network is having real issues at time if you visit whirlpool once in awhile. Please do it before your business crumbles around you due to customers leaving. Even after the assult I have received tonight, i'm going to hold on for a bit longer at this stage to see if things improve."

TO WHICH I REPLIED:

"What I really hate about people like you is that you make such pretentiously stupid and totally uninformed comments.

What didn't you understand about "I have worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week for four years" in terms of ensuring that Exetel delivers the best possible service?...in the context of "if you'd only listen to your customers?"

What is it that you fail to understand about the 50 or so posts I make each day on this forum either directly helping customers or ensuring that more qualified people within Exetel help them...in the context of "if only you'd listen to your customers."

Visit Whirlpool?

What a particularly stupid suggestion.

Please don't stay around - please churn to one of the ISPs whom you believe have a better back haul from Tasmania than Optus does - I'm sure there must be one and you're so much more knowledgeable than me I'm sure you will be able to find which one that is.

I'll happily waive any early termination fees that may apply as sure as sh** I don't want to have to work as hard as I do and then have to put up with customers like you making your endless, and totally misinformed, criticisms.

It simply isn't worth it.

In the mean time I, and several other people who've managed to build a 75,000 customer business from scratch in four years will continue to do what we've always done - everything possible to make our services as good as is possible given the various circumstances beyond our control (in this case another suppliers Tasmanian backhaul)."


FOLLOWED BY:

PARTICIPANT:

"I'll be churning now for sure, and both of these messages will be on whirlpool for all to see."

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:01 am
by nihonjin
good to see one less customer that will waste valuable staff time on pointless rants.

Well done forumadmin.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:14 am
by felix
damn right, don't just let them go, BOOT EM hard.

Instead of winging about the service, railing about "how i work in IT and i wouldn't give my dog a connection" some of us in the IT industry are looking to help the situation.

I disagree with the "there are no stupid people, only stupid questions" phrase.

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:20 am
by Mort
No problems then.

I realise the frustration felt both by yourselves and us as customers. There is only so much information that is made available to us both and it helps if *both* parties realise the limitations of what the other can do.

Unfortunately, the misunderstanding the customer has had in this case is thinking that Exetel is the ultimate provider of the service with the power to "make things right". In fact, Between Optus and Telstra, there isn't much other resellers can do. As you stated before, without building your own DSLAM network, you are limited in what control you have. I can't imagine things would be much different with another ISP for the level of plan offerings you provide.

It is unfortunate that Optus is becoming more like Telstra in their approach to things, unlike their early pioneering days.

All up though, I personally have no issues with Exetel. I guess my only comment to this particulat situation is the old "sleep before send" suggestion. Late nights and aggravation are not good things to have when clicking "send". Typing and saving the response, and then reading it again the next morning before sending can only be a good thing :)

I'm happy to close off this thread as well then.

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:17 pm
by cryptwizard
Now I know what I have to do should the rare occasion arise that I need my termination fee waived. :)

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:15 pm
by Tafkam
Does anyone know if he did churn, and post the comments on Whirlpool? I'd love to see. I bet he gets a roasting LOL

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:08 pm
by kenobiajay
Seriously though, Whirlpool has become full of complaints, esp the ISP sections. I'm sure this guy did complain there, like numerous other people opening useless threads. (sometimes with a useless pole!!)

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:25 pm
by SL200
Tafkam wrote:Does anyone know if he did churn, and post the comments on Whirlpool? I'd love to see. I bet he gets a roasting LOL
Not that you get to see the roasting of such complainants as the moderators there remove messages freely.

One thread I was reading the other day (I was bored at work :P) had the usual complaining and I and others replied saying we had no problems and suggested he leave and go to an ISP he reckons will serve his needs better. About 10 messages in a row were deleted with a notation showing either 'trolling' or 'off-topic'. And people on that forum have the hide to whinge about the level of moderation on this forum! Go Exetel (yes I can say that here without being censored!)

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:10 pm
by tocpcs
I've never found whirlpool to be as big on censorship as you claim.

In fact, many of the moderators are very impartial in their moderation.

When it comes to posting a reply to someone, if you do so objectively, and without any attack, and stick to the topic, then there is nothing wrong.

Let's assume the below:

OP: "Exetel is the suk. I get poor speeds and they annoy me. They told me to get stuffed and go elsehwere.".

Reply: "Typical ranting whinger. Be gone.".
Reply: "Not good to hear of your problems. <Rough troubleshooting data>. If you do indeed follow through and go elsewhere, I wish you all the best."
Reply: "Sure, you are an exetel rep."
Reply: "Stupid fanboi"
Reply: "Yet another whinger"
Reply: "Move to TPG"

Naturally, many of those replies will be deleted. The second, well there isn't much off topic there, if it is in response to the OP.

I'm yet to be shown an instance where there has been some form of 'censorship'.

Posts on this forum can disappear into the ether unnoticed, because the forum is coded in such a way to not make such actions transparent. Which is OK in a way, because it is a user help / Exetel company forum, and so should be viewed as such.

Whirlpool did it better, making everyone know what has happened so that others also can either share an agreement on moderation, or if there is censorship, it is well and truly known.

I'm of course talking from the instance of a complaint, which doesn't belong on a company help forum anyway, and being a company ran forum, they naturally can do as they please with the content submitted to it.