Off Peak Time

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
G-Box
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by G-Box » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:12 pm

We can, as we have just done, use our P2P constraint capabilities to heavily restrict P2P traffic from 12 midnight to 2 am. It would have been better, and will be better, for those unthinking P2P down loaders to 'voluntarily' start P2P downloads after 2am - which most 'old' Exetel users do - that is something that Exetel will deal with. Basically we will deal with it by ensuring that you don't stay as an Exetel customer.
Could you please explain this. I'm not sure I understand. Should people enforce a speed scheduler so P2P only occurs after 2:00am? Is this the right thing or the wrong thing to do? Please clarify as I would like to remain a customer. Thanks

I really value Exetel very, very highly - which is why, for almost five years, I've worked over 80 hours a week to try and make the services we offer the very best they can possibly be. I value people who don't value Exetel highly as people who should use another ISP.
I value exetel very highly, $4500+ and nearly 3 years being a customer I'm still extremely happy and impressed with the service.

srssms

Re: Off Peak Time

Post by srssms » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:11 am

I reckon some ethics like limiting offpeak experiences for high end speed plans might solve the issue, for instance I'm paying for an ADSL service while many other users are paying for ADSL2+ with a speed much greater than mine that can take a lot more advantage from the network, examples of this may be, compare the Telstra NSW ADSL1 MRTG graph to the Optus ADSL2+ MRTG's, Optus is a lot more shaky and you can see when offpeak starts that the upload usage rises from a normal capacity to a rocky falling steep spike. Compare to the NSW ADSL1 users, that is basically a smooth raise and doesn't take huge amounts of speedy resources. ADSL2+ takes to much advantage of the network..

Another idea might be to count uploads on offpeak, because most of this issue of this excessive load is caused by bitorrent programs going crazy at 12AM. Uploads in bitorrent clients do take their toll on lechers usage meters, at the moment it doesn't really effect them because they are free data, but if they did count their offpeak usage would be going a lot more rapidly and find them self in deficit.

One more idea would be to totally rebuild the capping system to make it more instant for the end user to be capped. Currently at the moment I've seen posts of many users leeching more data because the shaping system takes some time to finally slow down the end users speed. I've noticed that this is happening recently after offpeak ends because the user still has offpeak speeds on their capped onpeak. If peak quota was the only thing that mattered on the system then I reckon it wouldn't have the updating issue, if I've made it sound weird, basically the user exceeds his onpeak limit, then the customer stays the same capped speed including on offpeak until the end of the month, it may make a difference.

Just some of my ideas..

ForumAdmin
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by ForumAdmin » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:19 am

G-Box wrote:
We can, as we have just done, use our P2P constraint capabilities to heavily restrict P2P traffic from 12 midnight to 2 am. It would have been better, and will be better, for those unthinking P2P down loaders to 'voluntarily' start P2P downloads after 2am - which most 'old' Exetel users do - that is something that Exetel will deal with. Basically we will deal with it by ensuring that you don't stay as an Exetel customer.
1)Could you please explain this. I'm not sure I understand. Should people enforce a speed scheduler so P2P only occurs after 2:00am? Is this the right thing or the wrong thing to do? Please clarify as I would like to remain a customer. Thanks
1) P2P traffic is, by definition, not 'interactive' and therefore it is not time sensitive like HTTP traffic (browsing, video streaming, games playing etc). It therefore doesn't affect any particular user if the file they are downloading takes longer that the minimum theoretical speed to download.

At the moment some 10,000 Exetel customers are starting P2P downloads on the 'stroke of midnight' for no reason other than that is the time they have set their download manager to start.

If those customers set their download manager to start at 2 am they wouldn't be inconvenienced in any way (you can see from the MRTG reports that the maximum use of the network for downloading is over by 1.30 am each day) and the people who are still using HTTP traffic at midnight through to the early hours of the morning also wouldn't be inconvenienced in any way.

Exetel can address, and has addressed, this issue over the past two years by limiting the bandwidth available to P2P applications at various times of the day including, in the past, midnight to 2 am. We removed the P2P limits in the 12 midnight to 2 am period some months ago on the basis that most P2P downloaders had recognized the restriction and had moved their P2P downloads to start at 2 am or later. That worked fine for some 3 - 4 months but now, as more and more new users join Exetel these newer users start their downloads at midnight (and the majority of those downloads finish by 1.30 am as can be seen from the MRTG reports).

All we are asking is for people who, unthinkingly, start P2P downloads at 12 midnight to move them back to 2 am or later.

No-one is inconvenienced by doing this and costs are controlled which means prices stay low for everyone.

Exetel doesn't run its business to make huge profits - we make very little - and we work extraordinarily hard to provide the services we offer.

I, personally, don't think it's much to ask a sensible user of our services to contribute to keeping prices as low as possible by starting non-time critical downloads to use a time period that is otherwise going to waste.

G-Box
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by G-Box » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:47 am

Thanks for the detailed response.

As for the last part of your post, it seems only fair those who enjoy the service should assist towards keeping the system running smoothly and scheduling downloads after 2:00am.

I tried this in azureus last night and set the download speed to a max of 30KBps from 12:00am - 1:59am and it worked fine. Very easy to use and straight forward. The plug in is titled 'speed scheduler'.

Would limiting it to this speed be ok or entirely limiting it from 12:00am - 2:00am is ideal?

Thanks
G-Box

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jokiin
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by jokiin » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
At the moment some 10,000 Exetel customers are starting P2P downloads on the 'stroke of midnight' for no reason other than that is the time they have set their download manager to start.

If those customers set their download manager to start at 2 am they wouldn't be inconvenienced in any way (you can see from the MRTG reports that the maximum use of the network for downloading is over by 1.30 am each day) and the people who are still using HTTP traffic at midnight through to the early hours of the morning also wouldn't be inconvenienced in any way.
Maybe a mail detailing the current trend and what is needed out to the users is the best way to get the message across as many users wouldn't be aware, it won't change the behavior of the biggest leeches but the 95% of reasonable users it might be enough to make a difference

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marrow
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by marrow » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:00 pm

Maybe a mail detailing the current trend and what is needed out to the users is the best way to get the message across as many users wouldn't be aware, it won't change the behavior of the biggest leeches but the 95% of reasonable users it might be enough to make a difference

Yes ive only just seen this thread

It would be good to mail this request to all exetel users .....

And see if that helps
Live Life

gong_guy
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by gong_guy » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:46 pm

What are you supposed to do with the off Peak time between 12 midnight and 2am?

P2P is out, even though it is my lightest download rate in this period

I suppose USENET is out as well, I can saturate my line on ADSL2 with multiple connections to the NNTP server

Downloading would be out, I can again saturate my line with my download accelerator.

So I can VOIP and game freely, I don't do that.

Just move the start time to 2am If it walks like a duck......

austdata
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by austdata » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:59 pm

gong_guy wrote:What are you supposed to do with the off Peak time between 12 midnight and 2am?
Anything that's not P2P, um, how about browsing and e-mail. Gezz, there's a thought.
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

gong_guy
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by gong_guy » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:09 am

austdata wrote: how about browsing and e-mail.
Wow that will use up 10 megabytes per day why not do that in peak time?

machntom
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by machntom » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:15 am

As of my witness, and from what Exetel have proposed, they are not getting anywhere because saying to schedule downloads at 2 am instead of 12 am is going to cause the same drama as now people are downloading at 12 am. It will dis encourage the use of the ISP Exetel, therefore bringing it to complete consolidation and consideration throughout many people who would like to take up Exetel as their ISP service provider.

Another element that is significant and has confused many people is that Exetel should highly respect their customers privacy, time of internet use and download P2P access. It is highly been stated under a privacy act of law and Internet Service providers are not allowed to act in such remark. As of apparency in this matter, there has been no evidence to prove that the changes will be made as such yet: The primary aim of this forum is to provide a place for Exetel users to find answers to questions and to obtain information to make better use of their Exetel services. Statements made on this forum do not constitute any "official" Exetel position", Exetel has CLEARLY stated that the statement used on the Exetel forum is to discuss, and does not show OFFICIAL status unless all customers of Exetel are notified of a change/topic. If Exetel had planned on doing this they would have notified ALL of their customers by email/phone otherwise it would be considered illegal in terms of customer appreciation.

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jokiin
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by jokiin » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:51 am

there's always one in every crowd :wink:

ForumAdmin
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by ForumAdmin » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:24 am

Thank you to the 200+ users who moved your timed downoads to after 2 am.

We re-instituted the P2 controls from midnight to 2 am from Wednesday night onwards and you will see that removed the slight contention in the midnight to approximately 1 am tme period and eliminated the issue.

As more people realise that it's in everybody's interests not to start timed P2P downloads on the dot of 12 midnight we will ease those controls.

The objective has been achieved.

austdata
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by austdata » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:39 pm

Well done FA.

Cheers.
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

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jokiin
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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by jokiin » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:41 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:Thank you to the 200+ users who moved your timed downoads to after 2 am.
given the majority of users wouldn't even know it might be worth adding something to the next newsletter that goes out to at least get a few more willing participants on board

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Re: Off Peak Time

Post by ForumAdmin » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:05 pm

G-Box wrote:Thanks for the detailed response.

As for the last part of your post, it seems only fair those who enjoy the service should assist towards keeping the system running smoothly and scheduling downloads after 2:00am.

I tried this in azureus last night and set the download speed to a max of 30KBps from 12:00am - 1:59am and it worked fine. Very easy to use and straight forward. The plug in is titled 'speed scheduler'.

Would limiting it to this speed be ok or entirely limiting it from 12:00am - 2:00am is ideal?

Thanks
G-Box
Either is fine - the only issue is that if every user set their download manager to 12 midnight then overloads will occur which will have to be dealt with by restricting P2P bandwidth availability at those times.

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