Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by ForumAdmin » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:11 pm

There can never be any excuse for taking the property of another and defrauding them of their requested payment for it.

Such actions are contrary to all moral principles of every human society that has ever existed anywhere and at any time on this planet.

All human societies define property ownership and all human societies make laws and bring in to being measures to ensure those laws are adhered to.

Having said that, only the appropriately designated 'officers' of the society in which any of us live are properly authorised to enforce the laws that soceties, from time to time, promulgate and then enact.

"Vigilanteism" (personal or corporate) is NOT an acceptable method of attempting to enforce the laws of any society as they exist at any time.

In my, personal, opinion, AFACT has attempted to use "vigilanteism" itself, and, again in my opinion, then gone to an even worse scenario of attempting to coerce other individuals and organisations to become 'vigilantes' in their recent campaign against the very wrong perpetrators of breaches of copyright that Australia's current immoral and poorly educated citizenry daily perpetrate with careless contempt for the morality and values of the society that has, and continues, to shower so many benefits upon. AFACTs actions, in my opinion, are also unlawful in what they have done, just as unlawful as the the people they seek to prosecute, and their recent actions simply make themselves criminally corporate thugs of the very worst kind.

However - two wrongs don't make a right - and AFACT have now reverted to the law to resolve their very real issues and they have done so in one of the few ways open to them and they have selected a suitable 'target' for that lawful clarification.

austdata
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by austdata » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:25 pm

WHW wrote:I am also sad to report that a large number of big ISPs (including iiNet and the Internet Industry Association) have not offered much help to me on my paper. While I realise that busy people running an ISP do not necessarily have time for wishy-washy academic pursuits of an undergraduate law student with too much time on his hands
Hello WHW,
Have you tried contacting a law firm for the same advice? I understand they are rarely busy although I may be thinking of those that serve the Bitch Court.

Also, I note a strange leaning in your writing. Setting aside the references to US law, are universities now teaching US law instead of real law?
WHW wrote:Federal Court
I believe the name you were looking for is High Court. :roll:

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:58 pm

Having now read the statement of claim it appears to be to resolve the issue to only one point.

That point is:

Does the court accept that the documentation sent to iinet (and presumably to many other ISPs) constitutes prima face evidence that the IP cited was used to download material that infringed copyright and therefore did that mean that iinet could reasonably be judged to have acted 'recklessly' in ignoring that 'evidence'.

If the court rules in favour of AFACT - then iinet has a major, but major, problem and will face some major costs (on top of the costs it will incur in defending this action in the first place).

If the court rules that the 'evidence' provided was not sufficient then iinet is off the hook and AFACT will then need to establish what the court believes does constitute reasonable 'evidence - either as part of this court action or some subsequent action. It will do this because the copyright owners cannot allow the current situation to continue for much longer.

I wouldn't want to bet on a result either way but, whatever happens, will resolve the current situation of should an ISP be required to take action based on the current infringement notice documentation.

jokiin
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by jokiin » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:05 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
I wouldn't want to bet on a result either way but, whatever happens, will resolve the current situation of should an ISP be required to take action based on the current infringement notice documentation.
I think the only thing you could be reasonably sure about is that both sides will run up good size legal bills during the process :)

WHW
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:22 pm
Location: Kensington, NSW

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by WHW » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:59 pm

austdata wrote:Hello WHW,
Have you tried contacting a law firm for the same advice? I understand they are rarely busy although I may be thinking of those that serve the Bitch Court.
I work part-time in one of the national law firms. Unfortunately, my firm is not Gilbert + Tobin (lawyers for the film companies in this iiNet case), otherwise I would've taken full advantage of that firm's very good intellectual property resources (and people). :mrgreen: But yes, I have been discussing this at work with some lawyers. Thanks for the suggestion.
austdata wrote:Setting aside the references to US law, are universities now teaching US law instead of real law?
WHW wrote:Federal Court
I believe the name you were looking for is High Court. :roll:
Since I don't know you Mike, I'll assume you're being ignorant, rather than trying to be offend me. To clarify, there is a Federal Court of Australia, below and distinct from the High Court. Secondly, we imported a bunch of US intellectual property law as part of the Free Trade Agreement back in 2004. For a brief overview, have a look at this Attorney-General's webpage.

ForumAdmin, I'm researching up on some US law. Seems like they have their own bunch of problems too. Will write-up some issues here in a few days. :)

austdata
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by austdata » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:59 pm

ForumAdmin,
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Telstra, Optus and a few others help iiNet in its defence given the impact the outcome will have on them.

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

austdata
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by austdata » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:00 am

WHW wrote:Since I don't know you Mike, I'll assume you're being ignorant, rather than trying to be offend me.
I, on the other hand, will just assume you are being rude. My intended target was the education system for lacking the balls to back a home grown product. A not uncommon stand by many Australians, unfortunately.

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:36 am

austdata wrote:ForumAdmin,
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Telstra, Optus and a few others help iiNet in its defence given the impact the outcome will have on them.

Cheers,

Mike
You could be right - possibly via the IIA.

Difficult 'call' if you're a commercial company though.

Aquard
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:15 pm

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by Aquard » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:21 pm

austdata wrote:
WHW wrote:Since I don't know you Mike, I'll assume you're being ignorant, rather than trying to be offend me.
I, on the other hand, will just assume you are being rude. My intended target was the education system for lacking the balls to back a home grown product. A not uncommon stand by many Australians, unfortunately.

Cheers,

Mike
I think you're out of line. You told him he meant the high court, complete with eye rolling smiley.
He has corrected you, rather politely.
You're now claiming it was a dig at the education system (what the??) which also demonstrates further ignorance about the implications of a free trade agreement.

Gidget
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 1813
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:33 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Exetel's Copyright Compliance Measures

Post by Gidget » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:12 pm

Guys, please try not to drag this thread off topic - it has been an interesting discussion and I wouldn't want to have to curtail it because of the sniping.

Thanks

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

Post Reply