Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
ForumAdmin
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Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by ForumAdmin » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:27 am

As the local teens brought up by parents bereft of any moral or ethical values continue to attempt to justify their theft of other people's properties and the lunatic Krudd and his stalking horse Stupid Stephen continue to try and find a way of appeasing religious loonies with their net censorship proposals (and not forgetting the "NBN" proposals) its hard to think that there would be anywhere else on the planet with even less of a clue about the future of communications technology than Australia.

But wait...there are other Labor parties around the globe that rival Australia's in technical ineptitude if not in sheer stupidity and among their technically laughable plans there are now the signs of very, very real crackdowns on internet piracy. So have a read of this (get over the concept of 2 mbps broadband) and read on to the Irish and UK net piracy initiatives which are actually very real and simply the next step along the way to processes that were being enacted while I was in the UK last August:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 611425.ece

Doubtless iinet are into their third $A100,000 of legal 'advice' by now in their law suit to deny they overtly encouraged copy right theft and will spend over $A1 million before the case is settled one way or another but it seems that both the parliaments of the UK and Ireland (and it is a safe assumption that these actions will be duplicated around the EU) are making the iinet lawsuit redundant by legislating way past the 'burden of proof' assumptions of Australia's larcenous downloaders.

"....hours after the British announcement, Ireland’s Eircom announced that it would disconnect users who download music illegally from the Web in a settlement that is believed to be the first of its kind in the world. It said it would isolate people who continued to download illegally after receiving two warnings."

Now this isn't a "proposal" - this has been passed in to law and it has been done because it specifically accepts that copyright theft is endemic and must be stopped. None of this "day in court and only if found guilty before a jury of your peers" nonsense - two allegations (in the legislated form) and "no internet for you any more you thief". That's the " hop and the step" and its now only a "jump" away from a "National Register Of Thieves Names/Addresses/Phone Numbers/Driving Licences/Whatever" that will ensure the designated thieves will never be eligible to get internet again!??

....and the UK, and the rest of the EU, may well go exactly the same way ........and Australia?......well....who knows?

So while iinet is "flying the flag" for (and one would assume with the full 'moral' - what a laugh - and financial support of the other ethically bankrupt drones in the AIA it associates with) in its own personal, law suit it may well be the case that any result that may be achieved has already been foreshadowed before any court determination is reached in Australia.

Now, this is not the BS that continues to surround the issue of copyright theft in the Australia media and chatter sites. This is legislation in a democracy and, as I said over a year ago, because so much money is being stolen the copyright owners will find (and may well now have found) the way of preventing the thefts. No nonsense about "my legal rights to steal whatever I like" - the legal rights of the copyright owners have been enshrined in law and the methodology for protecting those rights is spelled out.

No 'blurring' - no doubt - no whining about TV scheduling - no 'bush lawyer advice' - just a democracy stating the obvious via legislation for the people who have no moral or ethical basis for their lives - "you will be punished for taking goods without paying for them".

Perhaps the copyright owners (including Microsoft) have finally found the right approach to protecting their property? They have directly gone to the governments of law abiding countries and said words to the effect of:

"Either legislate against copyright thieves or we pull out our investments in your country which should be a 'big help' to you in the recession (MIcrosoft is huge in Ireland) and ban the import of our products - see how you like operating your government and businesses without Windows, Word and Excel and watch a television with no US content."

It will be interesting to see what transpires here.

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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by vk3xem » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:18 am

A very interesting approach. First I thought it was a little heavy handed but then I figured no, if there is legitimate proof like is being sent to Exetel, then fair enough. If the cap fits, wear it!

If the perpetrator does not agree with this then I'm sure he would have right of appeal in a court, much like a speeding fine for example. So maybe an Infringement notice could be sent out giving thirty days appeal and if they do appeal they can stay online until it is heard in court. This of course would give the Copyright owners to observe any further breaches and present it as evidence in court. If the defendant proves his innocence in court then he keeps his Internet connection and the Copyright holders can pay all legal expenses. If the Defendant looses then his Internet is disconnected, placed on a ban list preventing him going to another ISP and pays all legal costs.

This sounds more than fair to me. Everyone that has an Internet account with an ISP clearly has a responsibility to ensure that illegal or Copyright protected material is not downloaded or uploaded with their service. So such a law passed could easily be expanded to include illegal content such as child porn and terrorist related activities etc except that those offences would of course allow their Internet connection to be suspended immediately along with their arrest pending trial.

This could actually work!
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM

samarium
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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by samarium » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:25 pm

And IP addresses never change.

And copyright owners always rigorously vet their accusations, and would never rely on an automated robot to heuristically scan networks and automatically construct and deliver accusations on the basis of a file name that looks like it may have a vague reference to a copyrighted work or any other vague reference.

And if the accused hasn't got the money to defend an accusation then they are guilty by reason be being too poor. I mean, this is a fair match, single average person vs cabal of large companies, there would be no disparity of resources in this case would there? Not to mention the cabal would get the claim legals as tax deductions.

Irrespective of my opinions of fairness of copyright laws, my desire for less congestion due to less p2p, and the fact that there are undoubtedly people in breach of the relevant laws, doesn't mean that someone is guilty by mere accusation or they those innocent should have to go though so much crap just because some cabal thinks they should continue to get money for nothing.

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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by ForumAdmin » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:02 pm

"CABAL" is both incorrect and terribly emotional.

"Innocent" people almost never suffer unfairly.

Guilty people, however, often steal and otherwise break the law with impunity.

It's way past time a better balance was struck.

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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by samarium » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:07 pm

I agree with your last statement.

Colt
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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by Colt » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:11 pm

I think there are a few issues:

Firstly I'd like copyright infringement to be recognised in a legal capacity.

I'd like to see clear guidelines established in terms of how internet users who breach copyright are to be treated. This includes setting up some sort of threshold in terms of how an offence is categorised. If copyright infringement is acknowledged as theft then it needs to be treated as such. So someone stealing the odd thing should not be treated the same way as someone heavily involved in the redistribution of media on a wide scale etc. If someone steals something worth $100 via P2P then they should be treated the same as if they stole $100 from the shops, likewise with any amount. I think this is a huge issue and the heavy handed tactics that have been adopted in the past seem to undermine a lot of the work going towards stopping piracy.

Also this terminating their internet crap doesn't seem to be the right choice here. If I rob a bank and catch the bus home, I'm not going to get stopped from ever using public transport again am I? Personally I think it's forcing the ISP into something they shouldn't have to or need to do.

Then there comes the issue of enforcement. I feel that any legal recompense must be clearly justified by un-biased evidence. A copyright holder alerting the police, the police checking an ISP's records and the content being downloaded would be my preference. Ultimately my only concern is that it is left to the police to establish guilt/innocence.

Lastly I think it would be beneficial for any change to be accompanied by media coverage so that people know where they stand. I think this is a huge issue right now and all the uncertainty doesn't benefit anyone.

and that's it.

Then, if all goes well we'll be buying entertainment media at 90's prices again, right? Right? :D

rusty100

Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by rusty100 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:36 pm

I seem to recall the recording TV shows on my VCR was copyright infringement for quite some years. But there was little enforcement if any. These days I understand such practices to be legal

I wonder if downloading a TV show after broadcast will at some stage be seen as the same as using my aging VCR

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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:11 pm

rusty100 wrote:I seem to recall the recording TV shows on my VCR was copyright infringement for quite some years. But there was little enforcement if any. These days I understand such practices to be legal

I wonder if downloading a TV show after broadcast will at some stage be seen as the same as using my aging VCR
Copyright infringement involves making a duplicate content of something but there were, and are, several explicit exceptions. "Time shifting" is one of them. This allows people to use a recording device on real-time streaming content in order to watch it at a more appropriate time (i.e. the VCR argument). If doing so, the copy can be retained indefinitely, but can only be shared with family or household members.

So you can use hard drive recording devices / VCRs to copy digital TV feeds (because they are real time and the time shifting provisions apply) but you cannot simply download the show after broadcast (becuase this is "on demand" not real time and hence the time shifting exclusion no longer applies).

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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by vk3xem » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:58 pm

I would like to see Copyright Infringement treated like hoon drivers in Victoria.

First Offence: Internernet removed for 1 month, if in contract then early termination fee applies. New Internet connection after ban including new connection fees!

Second Offence: Internet removed for 3 months, if in contract then early termination fee applies. New Internet connection after ban including new connection fees!

Third Offence: Internet removed for LIFE, if in contract then early termination fee applies.


THREE STRIKES AND YOU ARE OUT, END OF STORY!!!
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM

gong_guy
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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by gong_guy » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:17 pm

vk3xem wrote:I would like to see Copyright Infringement treated like hoon drivers in Victoria.

First Offence: Internernet removed for 1 month, if in contract then early termination fee applies. New Internet connection after ban including new connection fees!
Why would you rejoin the same ISP if they treated you that way?

JasonM

Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by JasonM » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:07 pm

No ISP in their right mind would put that sort of policy in place. The avenues available to a customer would likely not justify having the service in the first place.

But a government.. Maybe so. His idea has merit if the government was to side in a significant way with the copyright holders.

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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by vk3xem » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:34 pm

That's my point exactly Jason, it would have to be enacted by Government for it to work.

It is not the sort of practice any ISP would take upon themselves.
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM

gong_guy
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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by gong_guy » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:49 am

JasonM wrote: But a government.. Maybe so. His idea has merit if the government was to side in a significant way with the copyright holders.
Right, lets think about it.

A young boy of 12 downloads the latest Dr Who because he can't wait to see it. For this he loses access to the internet for one month and falls back in his grades at school.

He of course does it twice more, he is only a kid and gets banned for life. What sort of future does he have? No internet. (BTW does the whole family get banned as well?)

He would be better to stick to stealing cars, graffiti and malicious damage as he would only get a slap on the wrist and it would be expunged from his record when he was older.

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Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by vk3xem » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:09 am

gong_guy wrote:A young boy of 12 downloads the latest Dr Who because he can't wait to see it. For this he loses access to the internet for one month and falls back in his grades at school.
A 12 Year old kid would not have his own Internet connection, it would be his parents and they are legally responsible for his Copyright breaches. TOUGH LUCK, don't let kid download what ever he wants!
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM

JasonM

Re: Real End To Internet Copyright Theft?

Post by JasonM » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:27 am

The internet is also a valuable educational resource.

Maybe internet filtering has a use there - use it for the wrong reasons and get locked down to a certain range of IPs only?

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