Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
Alcor1
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 11:16 am

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by Alcor1 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:43 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:Midday to 2 pm can NEVER be considered as 'off peak'.
Surely what ForumAdmin meant to say was: Midday to 2 pm can NEVER be considered as 'off peak', unless you are deemed a 'good citizen'. :)

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
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Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:07 pm

I just thought of another alternative way of managing download quotas that actually does away with "peak" and "off-peak", and even "plans" all together. Not sure how easy/hard it would be to implement though and what customers would think of the complexity but...
  • Instead of plans like "6GB peak + 60GB off-peak + ability to select different peak times for different bonus amounts" just offer basic plans like 10GB of usage at any time + 4 extra "download credits" for $x/month, or 20GB of usage at any time + 6 extra download credits for $y/month
  • Then allow customers to allocate those credits among the various time slots. Something like:
    • Extra 2GB from midday to midnight = 1 credit
    • Extra 4GB from midnight to 3am = 1 credit
    • Extra 12GB from 3am to 9am = 1 credit
    • Extra 4GB from 9am to midday = 1 credit
  • This means the same plan, with extras, can give the user very flexible plan creation abilities for the same monthly outlay:
    • 18GB of peak time usage + standard off-peak; or
    • 10GB of peak time usage + an extra 16GB to use between midnight and 3am; or
    • 10GB of peak time usage + an extra 48GB to use between 3am and 9am; or
    • 12GB of peak usage + an extra 20GB midnight and midnight but 12GB of this falls into 3am-9am interval
    • etc.
  • You can even "simplify" it more by offering base plan for $x/month + download credits for $y per credit and let the user pick just how many download credits they wish to purchase, up to a limit.
  • With the right pricing this can actually unify the "no frills", the "added value" and the user flexible off-peak choices and timing / quota tradeoffs all together into the one framework

crider
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 11:36 am

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by crider » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:08 am

Two ideas,

1.
Retain 12 Hour Peak and Off Peak periods.
0201-1400 and 1401-0200
Deprioritisation on an IP basis based on downloads per period when required 24x7.

2.
Introduce 3 periods.
Introduce Off Peak as a multiple of Peak Quota (a Reward Allowance).
Deprioritisation on an IP basis bsaed on downloads per period when required 24x7.

Combined Off Peak Allowance Hard Limit - 64Gb (regardless of Peak Quota) - Trigger for Deprioritisation
Combined Off Peak Allowance Soft Limit - 32Gb (8x Peak) - Trigger for Deprioritisation
0201 – 1000 – Off Peak A – 16Gb Quota (4x Peak) - Trigger for Deprioritisation
1001 – 1800 – Off Peak B – 8Gb Quota (2x Peak) - Trigger for Deprioritisation
1801 – 0200 – Peak Period – 4Gb Quota
Last edited by crider on Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

david.mcauley

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by david.mcauley » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:12 am

I am guilty of queuing my downloads. mine start at 2:10.
the extra 10minute is just to account for any time differences.
with my ADSL2+ (I notice no difference during peek or off peek) I could use my 60gig quota in 2 nights if qued up enough.

I get excellent service from exetel at a good price and as a customer would be willing to try almost anything to continue to use exetel and be able to download what I want.

What about off peak times based on state?

VIC could start at 12, NSW kicks in at 12:30, QLD starts at 1AM etc etc.
this could be optimised based on states usage.

what ever the solution it needs to be simple i find the credit system etc mention in previous posts confusing.

I also think that shaping P2P traffic for the first 2 hours acceptable, and as a user who's downloads are 90% P2P I would still be happy.

warennie
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:55 pm
Location: Hastings, Vic

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by warennie » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:49 pm

Sorry i have not the time to read all the previous posts, so i will merely suggest my concept in hope its original :)

How about leave it how it is...
1. email all members a notice to the effect of: 'dear members, we are currently suffering from congestion at 2am every night due to scheduled and manually initiated downloads and ask that users eeze there downloading into the morning to reduce bandwidth'
2. wait a week, if this hasn't rectified the issue (which is no doubt wont), inform all users: ' as our attempt to reduce bandwidth congestion have failed, we are now monitoring the issue and those who are the top 20% of 2am bandwidth congestion and will be allocated into a separate bandwidth pool to reduce there effects on the majority of our users.
3. If that doesnt have an effect, send out emails to the said 20% informing them they are now in a 3am - midday off-peak pool.

If all else fails, inform them that you have observed they are violating international copywrite laws and the fbi are on there way.

Feel free to pick apart my post, i like to be flamed.

warennie
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:55 pm
Location: Hastings, Vic

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by warennie » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:54 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:I just thought of another alternative way of managing download quotas that actually does away with "peak" and "off-peak", and even "plans" all together. Not sure how easy/hard it would be to implement though and what customers would think of the complexity but...
  • Instead of plans like "6GB peak + 60GB off-peak + ability to select different peak times for different bonus amounts" just offer basic plans like 10GB of usage at any time + 4 extra "download credits" for $x/month, or 20GB of usage at any time + 6 extra download credits for $y/month
  • Then allow customers to allocate those credits among the various time slots. Something like:
    • Extra 2GB from midday to midnight = 1 credit
    • Extra 4GB from midnight to 3am = 1 credit
    • Extra 12GB from 3am to 9am = 1 credit
    • Extra 4GB from 9am to midday = 1 credit
  • This means the same plan, with extras, can give the user very flexible plan creation abilities for the same monthly outlay:
    • 18GB of peak time usage + standard off-peak; or
    • 10GB of peak time usage + an extra 16GB to use between midnight and 3am; or
    • 10GB of peak time usage + an extra 48GB to use between 3am and 9am; or
    • 12GB of peak usage + an extra 20GB midnight and midnight but 12GB of this falls into 3am-9am interval
    • etc.
  • You can even "simplify" it more by offering base plan for $x/month + download credits for $y per credit and let the user pick just how many download credits they wish to purchase, up to a limit.
  • With the right pricing this can actually unify the "no frills", the "added value" and the user flexible off-peak choices and timing / quota tradeoffs all together into the one framework

That's a nice concept, and could be called an 'Advanced user plan'. And keep the regular current plans as 'Simpleton User Plans' otherwise you might scare away potential customers!

Dear exetel, i really enjoy that you allow us users to contribute through this forum, i like you very much, yes i do.

austdata
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by austdata » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:01 am

warennie wrote:Sorry i have not the time to read all the previous posts, so i will merely suggest my concept in hope its original :)

How about leave it how it is...
1. email all members a notice to the effect of: 'dear members, we are currently suffering from congestion at 2am every night due to scheduled and manually initiated downloads and ask that users eeze there downloading into the morning to reduce bandwidth'
2. wait a week, if this hasn't rectified the issue (which is no doubt wont), inform all users: ' as our attempt to reduce bandwidth congestion have failed, we are now monitoring the issue and those who are the top 20% of 2am bandwidth congestion and will be allocated into a separate bandwidth pool to reduce there effects on the majority of our users.
3. If that doesnt have an effect, send out emails to the said 20% informing them they are now in a 3am - midday off-peak pool.

If all else fails, inform them that you have observed they are violating international copyright laws and the fbi are on there way.

Feel free to pick apart my post, i like to be flamed.
Exetel have already tried 1 and 2 with some success but it was for 12:00AM

I think it was less than 5% not 20%. :shock: :wink:

I know the FBI and most of the USoA think they are "international" but I doubt they really have the ability to enforce law outside the USoA. Actually I think they may be having trouble doing it inside too. :mrgreen:
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

Franpa
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Australia, QLD

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by Franpa » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:29 am

CoreyPlover wrote:I just thought of another alternative way of managing download quotas that actually does away with "peak" and "off-peak", and even "plans" all together. Not sure how easy/hard it would be to implement though and what customers would think of the complexity but...
  • Instead of plans like "6GB peak + 60GB off-peak + ability to select different peak times for different bonus amounts" just offer basic plans like 10GB of usage at any time + 4 extra "download credits" for $x/month, or 20GB of usage at any time + 6 extra download credits for $y/month
  • Then allow customers to allocate those credits among the various time slots. Something like:
    • Extra 2GB from midday to midnight = 1 credit
    • Extra 4GB from midnight to 3am = 1 credit
    • Extra 12GB from 3am to 9am = 1 credit
    • Extra 4GB from 9am to midday = 1 credit
  • This means the same plan, with extras, can give the user very flexible plan creation abilities for the same monthly outlay:
    • 18GB of peak time usage + standard off-peak; or
    • 10GB of peak time usage + an extra 16GB to use between midnight and 3am; or
    • 10GB of peak time usage + an extra 48GB to use between 3am and 9am; or
    • 12GB of peak usage + an extra 20GB midnight and midnight but 12GB of this falls into 3am-9am interval
    • etc.
  • You can even "simplify" it more by offering base plan for $x/month + download credits for $y per credit and let the user pick just how many download credits they wish to purchase, up to a limit.
  • With the right pricing this can actually unify the "no frills", the "added value" and the user flexible off-peak choices and timing / quota tradeoffs all together into the one framework
Excellent idea, just need to make sure no plan (except maybe the dear ones) can use credits on each time slot (all slots at once), as that would defeat the purpose, yes?

I'm really enjoying the ability to BROWSE THE INTERNET beyond midnight so far.
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https://www.speedtest.net/result/8729259527 (during low neighbourhood congestion)

Jane’s addiction
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by Jane’s addiction » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:49 pm

david.mcauley wrote:I am guilty of queuing my downloads. mine start at 2:10.
the extra 10minute is just to account for any time differences.
with my ADSL2+ (I notice no difference during peek or off peek) I could use my 60gig quota in 2 nights if qued up enough.



What about off peak times based on state?

VIC could start at 12, NSW kicks in at 12:30, QLD starts at 1AM etc etc.
this could be optimised based on states usage.

what ever the solution it needs to be simple i find the credit system etc mention in previous posts confusing.

I also think that shaping P2P traffic for the first 2 hours acceptable, and as a user who's downloads are 90% P2P I would still be happy.
Best Idea I've seen +1


I have only been with Exetel ADSL for 3 months and didn't know about all of this. Wanted to go on the 2am-2pm plan anyway but was still working it out slowly. I just worked out how to upgrade my plan when they put this on us I was about to change it to make up for daylight savings time and when I get home from work at 11 AM it would of gave me more time to enjoy it.

Optus we had to work with 11PM to 11AM off peak in EDST

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:23 am

Jane’s addiction wrote:
david.mcauley wrote:What about off peak times based on state?

VIC could start at 12, NSW kicks in at 12:30, QLD starts at 1AM etc etc.
this could be optimised based on states usage.
Best Idea I've seen +1
I don't think this is a very good idea.

Who determines which states benefit over others (by having early off-peak start times) and why should such differential be based purely on states? Not a very equitable arrangement. Besides which, the congestion exists in each state independently, so if NSW was to kick in at 12:30, then all NSW connections would experience congestion at 12:30 so it wouldn't really solve anything.

xQx
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by xQx » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:28 pm

What does it matter that there is severe congestion at 2am?

I know it was a problem at 12am, because people were still trying to use the internet, but if all of Exetel's internet connection are 110% utilised at 2am because people are inconsiderately beginning their downloads at the beginning of the off peak period (maybe to give themselves the best chance to finish the downloads before the end of the peak period that day, and they can't predict how many seeds will be online at any specific time)

But at 2am, when everybody is asleep, why does it matter?

CoreyPlover
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:47 pm

xQx wrote:But at 2am, when everybody is asleep, why does it matter?
Because the pursuit of better bandwidth management is more than just the practical consideration of people being awake at 2am. It is about flattening the bandwidth usage as much as feasibly possible to get higher operational efficiencies and cost savings / benefits passed on to end users.

It is also about identifying the problems that might arise in the future and having flexible bandwidth management policies already in place. For example, 10am-midday might be at risk of becoming congested in the foreseeable future and while another shortening of off-peak to 2am-10am would "fix" this, it is undesirable especially if alternate methods are available.

paulb
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:38 pm

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by paulb » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:30 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:For example, 10am-midday might be at risk of becoming congested in the foreseeable future
According to my readings of the traffic graphs, it now is the peak period, with "all-time highs" on the weekends since the start of this month. Am I missing something?
CoreyPlover wrote:... while another shortening of off-peak to 2am-10am would "fix" this, it is undesirable especially if alternate methods are available.
And such alternate methods which might actually work would be?

Something intrigues me. Well, amuses me anyway. The "step" in traffic at 02:00 is more dramatic than ever before, primarily since the "non-automated" traffic has fallen off substantially by that time - but there is still a very clear "step" remaining at midnight. This suggests that some 15% or so of customers have not actually "woken up" to the altered arrangements. Not that it matters pf course.

David R
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by David R » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:35 pm

Just thought I'd add support to one of coreyplover's idea. I believe evolving to a Super-off-peak would be, perhaps, the most practical and elegant solution for the network.

This rather makes sense
  • to encourage, and better distribute, load using a trough that exists 6 full hours each day, 180 hours a month
  • how about: 40 GB in 3am-9am plus 10 GB at each side within the bounds 12am-12pm ?
  • Introduce a note that "P2P is now available within 'core' down load time 3am-9am in give-way to servers/interactive apps at other (off-peak) times"
Exetel's routers would rate-limit or suspend all trackers during the 10/10 (20)GB zone aka 'general-user' off-peak time, and direct heavy users to accumulated-usage/threshold warning(s).

Remember, without first working on this trough you don't get a smooth graph, and if you don't get a smooth graph you have limited prospect of extending off-peak's size. In the end while it becomes more popular, it leaves one to ponder why ½ its capacity should just sit there untapped.
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David R
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by David R » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:26 pm

Considering further in regards to sustainability. Exetel might at some point allow for a kind of 'dual' off-peak product which could balance value with revenues from plans - something that captures the serial downloader I'd suppose.

Example. 100 GB for user spend >=$75.00.

Which at the present time 4 of 10 ADSL1 (Added Value) plans meet, and 5 of 15 ADSL2 (Added Value) plans also would satisfy. many of which users buy around 50 GB pm. So.. 100 GB off-peak could feature on those high-end of the plan table.

It might also tempt those of us '1500/256 speed group' to jump to the low end $75.00-$85.00 '8Mbit' of pricey (Telstra) plans - as we'd need not service quite as much 'prepaid capacity' in exchange for accessing off-peak 100 GB. - I wonder how that might work out?
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