Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
dgabriel
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by dgabriel » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:07 am

ryanb wrote:
dgabriel wrote:From what i can tell the source of negativity is
1. Not being compensated in the peak quota (more chance of going over peak limit now)
2. That everyone hasn't been put in the same boat

If possible add an extra 1-2gig to peak quota and put EVERYONE on 2am-12pm off-peak.
Bit slow aren't you? This thread is about managing congestion, not whining about the decision.

Anyway, have a read through this thread and it should address your concerns: http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32839
No not really, who is whining. As CoreyPlover stated the decision was unpopular, so i added a suggestion which still manages the midnight congestion and caters for the majority.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:35 am

ryanb wrote:
dgabriel wrote:From what i can tell the source of negativity is
1. Not being compensated in the peak quota (more chance of going over peak limit now)
2. That everyone hasn't been put in the same boat

If possible add an extra 1-2gig to peak quota and put EVERYONE on 2am-12pm off-peak.
Bit slow aren't you? This thread is about managing congestion, not whining about the decision.

Anyway, have a read through this thread and it should address your concerns: http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32839
I think this suggestion has merits. It balances the midnight congestion issue (everyone gets pushed back to 2am) and user expectations (everyone gets a small increase in quota). However, it probably retains an issue of congestion at 2am whereas some of the other suggestions here are able to smooth out any arising congestion a little better

aiki
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by aiki » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:17 pm

Like I said before one size won't fit all, personally I might stay up to browse a bit after midnight but I wouldn't wait up till 2am....that's me, maybe a lot of others too. So it doesn't really follow that the 2am slot will cause slowdown the same as the midnight slot......logically.
And if I had a bit more peak to use I wouldn't bother waiting till midnight either.

ryanb
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by ryanb » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:43 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:I think this suggestion has merits. It balances the midnight congestion issue (everyone gets pushed back to 2am)
Everyone is already getting pushed back to 2am.
CoreyPlover wrote:user expectations (everyone gets a small increase in quota).
Doesn't help with congestion at all.
.

vk3xem
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by vk3xem » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:15 pm

RedTail5 wrote:How about 50% of the users get shifted on the 2am-2pm one month, and the others get stay on the 12am to 12pm, for the month. Then the two groups of users can alternate each month.
Chopping and changing all the time is just going to lead to confusion, I can almost guarantee this idea will not happen.
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM

Jane’s addiction
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by Jane’s addiction » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:41 pm

What councils do is odds and evens days for lawn watering.
same as the above poster 50 50

Yello
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Location: Queensland

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by Yello » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:12 pm

I personally start my p2p downloads at a time which best suits exetel. I have a dedicated server which I have set to download all my files I want in offpeak times.

I max my downloads to the limit each and every month and I am all for the idea of less download time in offpeak and more usage. I would be more then happy to have a option to select which only gave me say 5 hours offpeak a day with a generous increase in my offpeak traffic from 3am-8am.

austdata
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by austdata » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:02 am

soaper wrote:is there some reason why people have to start down loads at 12mn??
No reason at all.
soaper wrote:i truly dont understand that.
That's okay, neither do the people that think they have to start at midnight.
soaper wrote:since no one is going to loose the *capacity* to actually get their allotted amounts .......i just cant see the problem in change.
That's an excellent point, I too believe there is no problem. I schedule my small download for 8AM.
soaper wrote:the ones like me who want to watch something at 12 mn other than a near frozen screen, will also have the negative fact that we are eating into our peak amount.
Hmm, leachers don't usually care about others? :wink:
soaper wrote:a very duhhhhhhh question.
if it so happens that a lot of heavy downloaders are on one same exchange........does that make that exchange more over loaded?
if so how can u program some of the proposed changes to make things better if all the heavies were living nearby each other?
All the users at that exchange will be affected. The only way to "repair" the problem would be to access additional bandwidth for that exchange or around it.

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

austdata
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by austdata » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:10 am

Having read all the posts in this thread and many in similarly titled threads, I would like to suggest that Exetel set up a default off-peak that suits their needs. Which looks like it would be 2AM to midday. Then offer other windows of off-peak that would "spread the load", again to Exetel's needs. Then we can pick which ever is available and most closely suits our needs.

Additional peak time can be used to entice users to use the less popular off-peak windows.

Anyhow, it is clear to me that midnight to 2AM is no longer off-peak :wink: given the congestion at that time.

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

JasonM

Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by JasonM » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:18 am

austdata wrote:All the users at that exchange will be affected. The only way to "repair" the problem would be to access additional bandwidth for that exchange or around it.
Or the upstream provider manages the traffic, Telstra do this for congested areas (shape to 3Mbps).
The alternative could be to remove the heaviest of users also.

Back to the topic though - my ideal suggestion would be to tie the off peak to the peak usage - so that users on the cheapest plan don't get as high usage in off peak, thereby reducing their impact on the network.

Jane's idea could work, have alternating nights for a 12am off peak, take the last number of the service number, if it's even, have off peak at 12am on Sat, Mon, Wed. If it's odd, off peak at 12am on Sun, Tue, Thurs, Friday is left out so that no one complains about it being 'unfair' - just don't have it at all!

It could also be done that off peak at 12am is introduced, but the quota in that period has a 2-times penalty, meaning, each GB downloaded between 12am - 2am is going to cost the user 2GB per 1GB, but I don't think that will work as there are surely some users there that use off peak, but not all of their usage, so we'd have the same problem back again.

Check August's graphs in Members Facilities after about the 3rd, where most of the impact of the change should be easily visible - and see traffic levels at that time. I predict they will follow the natural 'flat' trend from 11pm, until about 12.30am, where they will start to drop slowly until 2am, where they should peak again - possibly similar to tonight's 12am.

soaper
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by soaper » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:39 am

thanks Mike :D

i must live amongst heavy downloaders ....even tho they appear to be very ordinary older people and young marrieds. :lol: .
i am really slow dead on 12 mn

i know i am not affected by this change because of a lifestyle choice i make..ie i dont watch whatever people watch that they have downloaded all night.
all i really want is some shows off american ABC and i suppose if i investigated enough i would find a way to get them .
but......i can live without

so i am not affected really....except if i use up too much in the 12-2 am slot

i just cant see why, when a decision has been made, people cant figure a way around it for themselves and quit complaining and twisting around like a fish on the end of a hook.
the decision can be lived with by people by using the process of adaption.

i dont have any solutions to offer because my solution is simply to adapt.

austdata
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by austdata » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:52 am

I watched an episode of Air Ways on telly the other night and one bloke arrived 45 minutes late and wanted the Tiger Airways staff to fix "their" problem. :roll: He kept asking closed questions, read being obtuse, so they had a choice of being nasty or stupid. To be fair, the customer didn't raise his voice too much but neither would I, that manger looked just like my little sister at the same age and I'm scared of her!! :shock:

Customer not only believe they are always right but that they should always be obeyed. I have added the tantrum clause I spoke of sometime ago to my businesses terms and conditions, just had to rename it. :wink:
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

Alcor1
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by Alcor1 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:51 pm

JasonM wrote:Jane's idea could work, have alternating nights for a 12am off peak, take the last number of the service number, if it's even, have off peak at 12am on Sat, Mon, Wed. If it's odd, off peak at 12am on Sun, Tue, Thurs, Friday is left out so that no one complains about it being 'unfair' - just don't have it at all!
This sort of scheme is not likely to be easily handled by automatic schedulers.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:03 pm

Alcor1 wrote:This sort of scheme is not likely to be easily handled by automatic schedulers.
Which can be possibly countered by "it isn't meant to". And the odd/even phone number "bonus" midnight to 2am off-peak could be thought of as bonus off-peak browsing / streaming traffic.

But, yes, a 50%/50% phase-in (i.e. traffic downloaded during midnight to 2am contributes half to peak and half to off-peak) would have the same expected result for the end user customer base (in aggregate) and not require as much tinkered on behalf of users or Exetel.

scoastman
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by scoastman » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:31 pm

Alcor1 wrote:
JasonM wrote:Jane's idea could work, have alternating nights for a 12am off peak, take the last number of the service number, if it's even, have off peak at 12am on Sat, Mon, Wed. If it's odd, off peak at 12am on Sun, Tue, Thurs, Friday is left out so that no one complains about it being 'unfair' - just don't have it at all!
This sort of scheme is not likely to be easily handled by automatic schedulers.
Well, this is isn't entirely true. With uTorrent you can fully customise and throttle connections at any time through the week through the use of the internal scheduler.

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