Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
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soaper
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by soaper » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:24 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
It would not be related to anything that Exetel has caused to happen.

Most likely explanation is it's the end of the month and few people hav any down load allowance left - but As I've commnted before on your particular experience it is either caused or exacerbated by some local exchange/back haul situation.
last end month it was near paralysed at the end of the month

i live in a strange cyber world up here :D

anyway it was good to see the ending of my beloved *spooks* less slowly LOL

austdata
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by austdata » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:55 pm

soaper wrote:last end month it was near paralysed at the end of the month
Probably the same cause, just last month those same users still had bandwidth to use up by the end of the month. :wink:

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by ForumAdmin » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:12 pm

soaper wrote:
anyway it was good to see the ending of my beloved *spooks* less slowly LOL
...it must have come as a great relief to find out that Harry wasn't the mole after all.

Pity about Ben.

paulb
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Practical alternatives for mangling off-peak and congestion

Post by paulb » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:51 pm

soaper wrote:last night at 12mn there was a slow down but NOTHING like the past months
...
maybe some people have already made changes?
You may have to be quick but ... take a look at the download profile for this morning - there are two peaks, one at midnight and one at 02:00.

I would indeed say that someone has made changes. :D This has not been quite so visible in the past.

(Also note the fairly sharp but slightly delayed drop-off at midday.)

soaper
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by soaper » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:22 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
soaper wrote:
anyway it was good to see the ending of my beloved *spooks* less slowly LOL
...it must have come as a great relief to find out that Harry wasn't the mole after all.

Pity about Ben.

ohhhhh
Harry could never have been a mole....i like his eyes too much . :lol: :lol:
Ben was but a ship passing in the night.
i knew that Connie had to be the baddie.....i dont think that was much of a leap to guess that.
Adam was a sad loss :cry: :cry:

xQx
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by xQx » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:51 pm

I love the idea of greater monthly allowances through more specific time windows.

I'd be happy to move to a plan that allows 100GB/mth be downloaded in an off-peak window of 3am and 9am.

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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by ForumAdmin » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:03 pm

xQx wrote:I love the idea of greater monthly allowances through more specific time windows.

I'd be happy to move to a plan that allows 100GB/mth be downloaded in an off-peak window of 3am and 9am.
Something like that could be possible.

dbr
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by dbr » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:37 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
xQx wrote:I love the idea of greater monthly allowances through more specific time windows.

I'd be happy to move to a plan that allows 100GB/mth be downloaded in an off-peak window of 3am and 9am.
Something like that could be possible.
My opinion is that if this was offered it would have to be for a much shorter time and not overlap the business day at all. You can see the graph starts to rise from 6am and continue through the waking up period. By 7.30 it has passed a level approximating evening heavy use period.

With a shorter period for more downloads, I expect there would be an even greater 'cliff' at the end time than the one now at midday.

Therefore I would recommend that if a significantly higher quota was offered for a shorter period, it should be 0300-0700.

This would still allow:

Code: Select all

kbps  KB/s	GB/h	GB/4hr	GB/mth	60% (for overheads)
00256	32.000	0.1	0.46	13.82	8.294
00512	64.000	0.2	0.92	27.65	16.59
01500	187.50	0.7	2.70	81.00	48.60
02500	312.50	1.1	4.50	135.0	81.00
05000	625.00	2.3	9.00	270.0	162.0
08000	1000.0	3.6	14.4	432.0	259.2
12000	1500.0	5.4	21.6	648.0	388.8
15000	1875.0	6.8	27.0	810.0	486.0
so would really only be attractive to users who sync at greater than 2500 kbps (though solid 150 KB/s throughput would give 81GB - not unheard of on a 1500 connection)

the GB/mnth is based on 4 hrs per day for 30 days
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username4me
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by username4me » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:46 am

How about using a non technological method to change the peaks?

Send an email to users over (say) 30gb off peak quota and ask if they're willing to voluntarily schedule their downloads after 4am to help maintain exetel's high speeds and low costs?

A link to download managers would be useful. This would prevent advertising how to use additional bandwidth to the majority of users too.

xQx
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by xQx » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:47 pm

dbr wrote: With a shorter period for more downloads, I expect there would be an even greater 'cliff' at the end time than the one now at midday.

Therefore I would recommend that if a significantly higher quota was offered for a shorter period, it should be 0300-0700.
I agree, and I'd like to clarify my suggestion - that is, an OPTIONAL shorter time-higher download plan.

I think it's important to recognise that any one plan that I suggest is not going to suit everyone (and in fact would probably fail if everyone moved to it) - but moving the worst 10% - 20% of customers into the true off-peak period, while leaving the other 80% (that only account for 20% of the bandwidth) in the existing bracket would result in a vastly different traffic profile.

For example:

Plan 1: 1am - 2pm --> 40GB/mth
Plan 2: 2am - noon --> 60GB/mth
Plan 3: 3am - 7am (or 9am) --> 100GB/mth

That way the ratbags (like myself) who have schedulers and put undue load on the network will self organise to the plan that maximises monthly downloads and minimises network disrpution; but people who use the off-peak period for legitimate use will choose the longer hours and take a monthly MB cut.

This would taper the 'cliffs' to different times of the day and maximise bandwidth utilisation throughout the day.

The overall idea is to find a way that Exetel can keep the pipe usage at ~90% of capacity for the 24 hour period - with off-peak users filling the space, but leaving a margin for interactive traffic.

My feelings on differential services based on traffic type are mixed, because it's the thin edge of the wedge. I've seen this happen in other ISP's - Because bit-torrent and newsgroup traffic is so hard to defend (the general perception is that all this traffic is illegal and only used by the users you'd prefer to let leave for DODO) as soon as network engineers give ISP management the capability to squeeze bulk traffic to save bandwidth charges they do just that, excessively. If Exetel have the corporate structure that can use differential service quality responsibly (and recognises the income stream that comes from normal people who use peer-to-peer), this is a great idea... but generally speaking I'm a strong advocate of Network Neutrality.

paulb
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Re: Practical alternatives for mangling off-peak and congestion

Post by paulb » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:05 pm

dbr wrote:With a shorter period for more downloads, I expect there would be an even greater 'cliff' at the end time than the one now at midday.
Well, here's one for the books then! Whatever the "cliff" may look like, today's figures (that is, 1st of August) set an all-time record for Exetel!
dbr wrote:Therefore I would recommend that if a significantly higher quota was offered for a shorter period, it should be 0300-0700.
I'm not at all sure the higher quota is needed to justify the shorter period. It seems to me that the users responsible for these "peaks" of which today is such a dramatic example, are not actually using their full quota - simply because you cannot occupy the whole ten (let alone 12) hours continuously, within the quota.

This constant barrage of traffic in the "off-peak" period, which is in fact now the peak period (and that's been the whole problem to start with) can really only be explained by torrent users who are active sporadically over the whole period allocated but collectively result in very heavy traffic. As such, they probably don't care a great deal about the actual (traffic) quota and just as likely are not greatly concerned about the time either. Those (few) who make comment here, who are desperate to obtain the maximum quota and the maximum time, no doubt make comment because that is what they desire, but do not necessarily represent the majority or indeed many at all.

No doubt the admins would have a reasonable idea of who is who and who is the most common - the "average" user whose main use is in the "peak" period, the "moderate" downloader whose "off-peak" use is markedly larger than their "peak" use and is spread out evenly over that period and often with significant upload use, and the "max" user who goes closely to the limits.
username4me wrote: How about using a non technological method to change the peaks?
Send an email to users over (say) 30gb off peak quota and ask if they're willing to voluntarily schedule their downloads after 4am to help maintain exetel's high speeds and low costs?
Oh yes, as if that's going to work. :mrgreen: {In essence, that's what was already done at the start of this particular exercise - and don't say that it somehow wasn't clear enough for people to see the meaning.}

I await the admins' confirmation of the profiles of use, but I'm not at all sure this problem is actually the result of a few "over 30gB" users but rather just a large number of "happy downloaders" (and mainly by their characteristic behaviour, torrents).
xQx wrote:but generally speaking I'm a strong advocate of Network Neutrality.
I suspect the vast majority of us are! :D

dbr
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by dbr » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:21 pm

paulb wrote:Well, here's one for the books then! Whatever the "cliff" may look like, today's figures (that is, 1st of August) set an all-time record for Exetel!
Indeed. The new maximum use time is 1100-1200.
paulb wrote:I'm not at all sure the higher quota is needed to justify the shorter period.
No, not necessarily need, however it is to do with perceived value. If you offer someone, for example, 4 hr or 10 hr to consume 60 GB, I would imagine it is a no brainer to pick the more flexible 10 hr period. The idea or more quota for shorter period is as an incentive.

Remember the aim is to get the graph to be as rectangular as possible with the peaks and troughs being flattened.
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soaper
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by soaper » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:34 pm

dbr wrote:
paulb wrote: The new maximum use time is 1100-1200.
interesting
i never look at graphs but that one illustrates my experience here

slow around 11 pm
drop out around 11.45 and when i came back at around 2am and downloaded somehing off ABC i view to just see how it played out for a few minutes.............was quite good speed.
i must have just missed the peak a few mins later

slow even for browsing just pre 12 md today

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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by ForumAdmin » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:24 am

soaper wrote:
dbr wrote:
paulb wrote: The new maximum use time is 1100-1200.
interesting
i never look at graphs but that one illustrates my experience here

slow around 11 pm
drop out around 11.45 and when i came back at around 2am and downloaded somehing off ABC i view to just see how it played out for a few minutes.............was quite good speed.
i must have just missed the peak a few mins later

slow even for browsing just pre 12 md today
....as I've said before...I think your problem may be related to your exchange rather than Exetel...as for the past two nights there has been almost 1 gbps of unused IP bandwidth at midnight and similar percentages on all of the NSW ingrss/egress links.

dbr
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Re: Practical alternatives for managing off-peak and congestion

Post by dbr » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:24 am

soaper wrote:interesting
i never look at graphs but that one illustrates my experience here

slow around 11 pm
I was referring to 11am-midday (otherwise I would have used 2300-0001), look at the huge demand there. Higher than previous midnight surge.
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