Change to AUP - Section (d)

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
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Tazz
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Tazz » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:38 pm

stainsby wrote:
ForumAdmin wrote:
stainsby wrote:"26.5G so three times that is 79.5G"

Yes, but this is not a fixed quantity. Why not jut make the limit 80GB and update it to some new value each quarter? It would lend a bit of certainly.
Because it would completely destroy the point of constantly modifying it to ensure the available bandwidth doesn't get saturated.
I really can't see how that is going to work if the average rises for some reason (e.g. new popular video app). Maybe the heat is affecting my brain (it is like 30C in here).
The daily average has about doubled in the past year, see the yearly graph at the bottom of this page -
http://public.mrtg.exetel.com.au/bwsumm ... width.html

If it doubles again in the next year, then in theory out soft offpeak limit will double too.

ForumAdmin
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:50 pm

Tazz wrote: how that is going to work if the average rises for some reason (e.g. new popular video app). Maybe the heat is affecting my brain (it is like 30C in here).
The daily average has about doubled in the past year, see the yearly graph at the bottom of this page -
http://public.mrtg.exetel.com.au/bwsumm ... width.html

If it doubles again in the next year, then in theory out soft offpeak limit will double too.
If you have been a user for a while and have looked at the MRTG reports you would see that the bandwidth doubles roughly every twelve months.

If you have been a user for a long time you may remember that the off peak download allowance has increased from 20 gb some five years ago to the 60 gb it is for many plans at the moment.

Of course this trend may not continue but it has every year for five years.

Peleus
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Peleus » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:27 pm

Also just out of interest -

How is the new change going to take further advantage of available bandwidth as you put it - the aim of the change. I can see the downloads corresponding directly towards the average amount that Exetel users download, but I can't imagine it relating in any way to the amount of bandwidth (or bandwidth wastage) effecting Exetel. The off-peak average you've said is about ~25gb. Meaning anyone who downloads ~75gb or above is "in trouble". If you suddenly doubled Exetel's bandwidth tomorrow to 10 Gbps, the average downloads won't change to soak up this "unused" "wasted" bandwidth, it will stay the same, because those lighter users are happy only checking emails etc - and those heavier down loaders will still not get a chance to take advantage of that wasted bandwidth, because the current system doesn't relate to it at all.

What's the point?

tr3nton
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by tr3nton » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:30 pm

So.. has this policy been ammended as the usage has heavily increased this month since implementing the 'no charge period'??

Well, if the average use is 26.5gb in off peak a month, which 3 lots of this is 79.5gb (which has been mentioned), if one month the average usage decreases to say 15gb (fair usage at 45gb) - which in all likely hood is unlikely to happen, and heavy downloaders are allowing for the month a total of say 75gb - which is clearly higher - they'll get asked to change plans? Furthermore, with the 60gb limit, if we reach 80% of that limit, we can an e-mail warning that we are 80% of allowable quota. Will there be a similar set up for the uncharged period (assuming it is based on the previous months average use)?

I do agree, there needs to be a fair usage policy - I don't know how anyone could even get into the 100 gb's range (as i had seen mentioned earlier in this thread). Still, I don't understand the point of removing the hard limit if there is just going to be an undefined limit (specific gb's).

Anyway, when I first saw the e-mail this morning I was thinking.. whoah! how we meant to know what the average use is - i was glad to find half way through the forum the average use is specified, which does in fact still give ample downloads :)

Also, when you mentioned the user may be asked to change plans - given all off peak limits (at least for ADSL1) are considerably lower than the 60gb - now uncharged time frame..... or is it that you are referring to changing to a plan with a higher peak download allowance?

Exetel is still the best ISP imo.. ;)
hi

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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:41 pm

tr3nton wrote:So.. has this policy been ammended as the usage has heavily increased this month since implementing the 'no charge period'??

Well, if the average use is 26.5gb in off peak a month, which 3 lots of this is 79.5gb (which has been mentioned), if one month the average usage decreases to say 15gb (fair usage at 45gb) - which in all likely hood is unlikely to happen,)
Off peak usage has increased month on month, every month for 69 consecutive months - I see no reason why that pattern will change over the coming months.

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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:45 pm

Peleus wrote:Also just out of interest -

How is the new change going to take further advantage of available bandwidth as you put it - the aim of the change. I can see the downloads corresponding directly towards the average amount that Exetel users download, but I can't imagine it relating in any way to the amount of bandwidth (or bandwidth wastage) effecting Exetel. The off-peak average you've said is about ~25gb. Meaning anyone who downloads ~75gb or above is "in trouble". If you suddenly doubled Exetel's bandwidth tomorrow to 10 Gbps, the average downloads won't change to soak up this "unused" "wasted" bandwidth, it will stay the same, because those lighter users are happy only checking emails etc - and those heavier down loaders will still not get a chance to take advantage of that wasted bandwidth, because the current system doesn't relate to it at all.

What's the point?
Just out of interest - if you get to run your own ISP for six years you will see that every comment in this post of yours is wrong.

Having said that, either assume that Exetel is managed by idiots with less knowledge of how their bandwidth is utilised than the casual commenters here (that could be the case) or make a decision that perhaps you don't know enough to comment further.

nightfighter
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by nightfighter » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm

Would it be possible to be caught out mid-month by a decreasing average?

Say you were just below the daily average near the end of the month, the average drops and leaves you over.

Could this happen?

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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:13 pm

nightfighter wrote:Would it be possible to be caught out mid-month by a decreasing average?

Say you were just below the daily average near the end of the month, the average drops and leaves you over.

Could this happen?
No.

Bruce Evans
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Bruce Evans » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:16 pm

Dear ForumAdmin,
Can you inform us whether Exetel intends to frequently vary the '3 x average usage" to perhaps "2x" or "1.5x' as required in order to limit bandwidth usage at unpredictable times? (if it's not still on the drawing board) If so, won't this scare customers even more? If not, then could you please explain how this approach will "ensure the available bandwidth doesn't get saturated?"
You stated that "No Charge" does not mean "no limit" but consider this:
Exetel's ADSL1 pricing page ( http://www.exetel.com.au/a_plan_pricing_new.php ), where prospective new customers look to compare plans, states the amount of "Included Peak Downloads" as a quantity of Gigabytes. So, naturally, when they see the "Included Off Peak Downloads" stated as "No Charge" they will almost certainly assume that this also refers to the download quantity, meaning there is no limit! (How many people read all the terms and conditions?)
To avoid confusion, this page really needs changing. Otherwise Exetel risks getting a bad reputation, which is something none of us want.
Given that Exetel's off-peak limit has increased from 20GB to 60GB over five years, which is less than 20% extra per year, are you confident that Exetel will in the future be able to increase the "soft" limit by the implied 100% per year? (implied by usage reportedly doubling ever year)
Last edited by Bruce Evans on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

nightfighter
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by nightfighter » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:18 pm

ForumAdmin wrote: On the topic of advising a monthly average - yes, we will do that and it will be updated daily.
My post was in reference to this, I am assuming you mean the projected monthly average will be updated daily or will the monthly average be set at the start of each month? (and updated monthly)

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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:58 pm

nightfighter wrote:
ForumAdmin wrote: On the topic of advising a monthly average - yes, we will do that and it will be updated daily.
My post was in reference to this, I am assuming you mean the projected monthly average will be updated daily or will the monthly average be set at the start of each month? (and updated monthly)
It will be given at the start of the month and ONLY increased as the month goes on - never decreased.

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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:06 pm

Bruce Evans wrote:Dear ForumAdmin,
1) Can you inform us whether Exetel intends to frequently vary the '3 x average usage" to perhaps "2x" or "1.5x' as required in order to limit bandwidth usage at unpredictable times? (if it's not still on the drawing board) If so, won't this scare customers even more? If not, then could you please explain how this approach will "ensure the available bandwidth doesn't get saturated?"

2) You stated that "No Charge" does not mean "no limit" but consider this:

3) Exetel's ADSL1 pricing page ( http://www.exetel.com.au/a_plan_pricing_new.php ), where prospective new customers look to compare plans, states the amount of "Included Peak Downloads" as a quantity of Gigabytes. So, naturally, when they see the "Included Off Peak Downloads" stated as "No Charge" they will almost certainly assume that this also refers to the download quantity, meaning there is no limit! (How many people read all the terms and conditions?)

4) To avoid confusion, this page really needs changing. Otherwise Exetel risks getting a bad reputation, which is something none of us want.

5) Given that Exetel's off-peak limit has increased from 20GB to 60GB over five years, which is less than 20% extra per year, are you confident that Exetel will in the future be able to increase the "soft" limit by the implied 100% per year? (implied by usage reportedly doubling ever year)
1) There is no plan to change the 3 x average - if you think about it for more than a tenth of a second you would see why.

2) Personally, as someone with a basic grasp of the English language, I can't find a co-relation between the word "charged" and the word "limit"....I don't see how anyone else could.

3) See above.

4) We'll look at doing that.

5) I have never "implied" that future changes would be based on anything other than the stated formula - I used the mrtg reports to show that bandwidth has never decreased in usage over 6 years month on month and that Exetel has always increased the off peak limit - never decreased it.

Tazz
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Tazz » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:10 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
It will be given at the start of the month and ONLY increased as the month goes on - never decreased.
Where will we be able to see this? in our members facility somewhere?

Peleus
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Peleus » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:33 pm

ForumAdmin wrote: Just out of interest - if you get to run your own ISP for six years you will see that every comment in this post of yours is wrong.

Having said that, either assume that Exetel is managed by idiots with less knowledge of how their bandwidth is utilised than the casual commenters here (that could be the case) or make a decision that perhaps you don't know enough to comment further.
You're right - you do know much more about it than me, which is why I was asking. I'm more than happy to keep an open mind, and be educated on it. So can you relate to me how it will scale according to bandwidth available rather than the average of the users of Exetel? Believe it or not - not everyone on the internet is out to just shoot you down and try and put crap on your idea's, I'm simply trying to understand and learn.

rseydler
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by rseydler » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:49 pm

Wow that was a read!

Well I am willing to see how this pans out. :D

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