Change to AUP - Section (d)

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
Locked
ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:43 pm

LordS wrote:poll em together, total average across all unmetered plans.

Then the adsl2 people can bring the average up for us :)
One of the things that people who download a lot never seem to grasp is that they are a tiny minority - in Exetel's case less than 2% of all users - and their personal actions don't influence anything other to irritate their suppliers. 98% + of Exetel users use the 10 or 12 hours of uncharged time as a welcome way of signing up for lower peak download plans and thus enjoy a lower cost of their internet plans. They use the early morning period to download big files to save peak bandwidth allowances and the 8 am to 12 noon period to browse and email and game and....without affecting their peak downlaod allowances - it s a good concept that benefits all (sensible) customers.

After all the years I have been associated with Internet service provision I am still amazed at this expressed view of "let's download as much as possible" by the people who do it.

This latest iteration of trying to find ways of giving as many people as possible as much as possible is ALWAYS threatened by a tiny minority who act in unsocial ways and destroy every initiative we have ever tried....and will ruin this one if we let it happen.

Time is getting short for me now and I'm not prepared to let that happen yet again. Already this month there are people who have downloaded over 200 gbs and I think the largest downloader has downloaded over 500 gbs. That user should select another ISP.

From midnight tonight we will start shaping the 100 heaviest down loaders in the off peak period to test the new shaping implementation (that can be deployed in every State and Territory).

From December 1st we will use block pages at 60 gb and 65gb of off peak use that the user has to un-block after acknowledging that his/her internet service will be suspended if he goes one byte past the notified limit.

At 70 gb (at the moment being 10 gb below the 'hard' limit)) the block page will appear and can be released but the service will be slowed to 64 kbps in the off peak period.

At the off peak hard limit the service will be again blocked but cannot be unblocked in the off peak period but will still be available in the peak period. The user who reaches this point will be given the option of changing plans to come into effect at the start of the next month or of churning to another provider.

If this process doesn't suit the 1% plus people who may be affected by it then those users would be much better off with another provider and Exetel as a supplier and 100,000 ADSL users of the Exetel service will also be better off.

There should be no misunderstanding that we will rigidly adhere to the terms and conditions that are the contractual basis for supplying the services.

Col
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: NSW

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Col » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:35 pm

So you are pretty much bringing in a fixed limit of 70GB with excess at dialup speeds. The average x3 is no longer the real limit, its mostly now just the point where customers will be asked to switch plans/ISPs. I was looking forward to having an offpeak limit that grows organically with customer demand and available bandwidth but now it looks like it has been thrown out before it got a chance. You were happy with the idea of a 79.5GB limit, and stated that the average has been growing month-on-month so you had the expectation that it was going to grow steadily. Now you have changed it so 1-2% of customers who have no real control over the average can't widly inflate the average... which doesn't really make sense.

The only thing I am thrilled about is the announcement of a new shaping implementation with the hope of the return of shaped plans as there are still heaps of people that get turned away looking at even the smallest of excess charges.

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:25 pm

Col wrote:
1) So you are pretty much bringing in a fixed limit of 70GB with excess at dialup speeds.

2) The average x3 is no longer the real limit, its mostly now just the point where customers will be asked to switch plans/ISPs.

3) I was looking forward to having an offpeak limit that grows organically with customer demand and available bandwidth but now it looks like it has been thrown out before it got a chance. You were happy with the idea of a 79.5GB limit, and stated that the average has been growing month-on-month so you had the expectation that it was going to grow steadily.

4) Now you have changed it so 1-2% of customers who have no real control over the average can't widly inflate the average... which doesn't really make sense.

5) The only thing I am thrilled about is the announcement of a new shaping implementation with the hope of the return of shaped plans as there are still heaps of people that get turned away looking at even the smallest of excess charges.
1) It doesn't say that at all.

2) Nothing has changed - the absolute limit will be calculated that way.

3) Nothing has changed.

4) I must learn to write more clearly - it doesn't say that at all.

5) Shaping is an incompatible concept for low cost ADSL. It is used to control a tiny percentage of customers who simply have no concept of living in a sharing society.

dbwalsh
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by dbwalsh » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:34 pm

A few comments by one of the higher paying customers.
I am on the 45 gig peak 1.5mb account. Its as fast as I can get so far from my exchange (bring on the NBN)

[quote]98% + of Exetel users use the 10 or 12 hours of uncharged time as a welcome way of signing up for lower peak download plans and thus enjoy a lower cost of their internet plans.[/quote]
To me this is underutilised use of 50% of the day. It would equate for just 6 gig usage for me, a mear 13.3% of my overall peak usage.

Surely 10 - 12 hours of off peak usage is only 3% of your total months usage, with such unmetered access, I took this as an indication that Exetel would prefer me to download off peak, so I do. Admittedly I have taken advantage of the unmetered access, and will just as easily shift back

I know Im not a typical user, Im a geek. I have three times as many computers in the house than I do people. My biggest weakness this month is enjoying HD from Miro and have been checking out the other online IPTV's. I do wonder what Exetel expected to happen when they increase the off peak allowance, of course people are going to increase thier use.

My two bits.
I love Exetel
Ill shape my usage to ensure I get to stay, its the best deal in town

alinos
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:28 am
Location: vic

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by alinos » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:48 pm

i have no problem with the shaping seems fair to me especially since if on once shaped your max DL speed is 10KBS you could only download about 13GB if you had it running solid for 12 hours a night for 30 days of the month on any plan so the only way you could get screwed over by this is by the usage update delay although chewing through more than half of this before it kicks a stink would only be possible on the ADSL2 plan

Col
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: NSW

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Col » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:05 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
Col wrote:
1) So you are pretty much bringing in a fixed limit of 70GB with excess at dialup speeds.

2) The average x3 is no longer the real limit, its mostly now just the point where customers will be asked to switch plans/ISPs.

3) I was looking forward to having an offpeak limit that grows organically with customer demand and available bandwidth but now it looks like it has been thrown out before it got a chance. You were happy with the idea of a 79.5GB limit, and stated that the average has been growing month-on-month so you had the expectation that it was going to grow steadily.

4) Now you have changed it so 1-2% of customers who have no real control over the average can't widly inflate the average... which doesn't really make sense.

5) The only thing I am thrilled about is the announcement of a new shaping implementation with the hope of the return of shaped plans as there are still heaps of people that get turned away looking at even the smallest of excess charges.
1) It doesn't say that at all.

2) Nothing has changed - the absolute limit will be calculated that way.

3) Nothing has changed.

4) I must learn to write more clearly - it doesn't say that at all.

5) Shaping is an incompatible concept for low cost ADSL. It is used to control a tiny percentage of customers who simply have no concept of living in a sharing society.
1) It says there will be a block page at 70GB then shaped thereafter (though I now see you have possibly indicated that you will keep moving that value to ~10GB below the absolute limit).

2) I'm pretty sure in the past you have commented how you don't like ISPs advertising an unlimited period when in fact it is xxGB then shaped. Well in this case, from what I gather, you are advertising a limit of three times the average but offering 70GB then dialup speeds between that and the absolute limit.

3) Okay, granted, the limit will still increase but it will get increasingly difficult to reach it as it goes further beyond 70GB to dialup speeds (that's if you don't keep moving that last block page).

4) By 3's reasoning it will make is harder for that 1-2% to download past 70GB (or ~10GB under the limit) thereby reducing their effect on the average. In fact they would be lucky downloading more than 8GB past 70GB at 64 kbps.

5) Okay.

I'm sorry if I'm still way off.

rseydler
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by rseydler » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:22 pm

Can someone push the reset button..... This is going all over the place.

Obviously this didn't work out well for Exetel and that's ok. I am a firm believer of learning by trying.

I'm not really keen on block pages. If the wife picks up the VOIP phone and tries to dial will it still work? Does the block page only block non VOIP traffic?

If the service is slowed will VOIP still work? If the service is cut off for offpeak and we only have VOIP that could certainly make a potentially dangerous situation?

I'd still prefer to have my old plan back than all these changes going on behind the scenes. At least I knew where I stood without refreshing the forum every five minutes.

Ron

P.S. What the heck do you do with 500GB of data in 20 days?

adamdmills
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:38 am
Location: Australia

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by adamdmills » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:42 am

I'm on the 30gb peak / 1.5mb plan, which previously gave me a total monthly download quota of 90gb. Not only did I routinely bump the upper limits of this, but I did so without breaking any laws. (It might surprise people to know that there is a wealth of free and legal resources on the internet, and that not all heavy downloaders aren't interested in getting HD rips of the new Star Trek film; for that matter, I resent the implication that high-quantity downloaders are lawbreakers by default. But I digress.)

I must say that I was surprised and confused by the seemingly sudden announcement of the change to the AUP. But, in theory, I thought it was a reasonable move on Exetel's part. That the monthly average wasn't stated was a concern, however, but I assumed this would be quickly rectified.

After a few days away from the internet, I switched on my computer this evening to find that my connection had slowed to a crawl. After messing about with things for a while, I discovered the cause - apparently, I've had my connection shaped as a result of exceeding the previously-unannounced hard limit of 79.5gb.

Now, when Exetel introduced unmetered off-peak usage, I considered it another positive step from a company who have constantly surprised my by increasing the value of my service without increasing the price (and even managing to lower it on one occasion). So I decided to make the most of their generosity. I don't have the capability to download 200 or 500gb a month - and I think that even I would run out of things to download pretty damn quickly at that rate.

But it seems that as suddenly as they gifted us with the pleasant surprise of unmetered usage, they've turned around and snatched it back. Not only that, but now I've been sentenced to suffer through dial-up speeds for the next ten days for committing a 'crime' that only came into law in the past 48 hours.

For the first time since switching, I'm sorely disappoionted in Exetel's service. If you want to introduce a new hard limit, then by all means do so - but tell us of it in advance. Don't spring it on us after many of us have already exceeded it under the false assumption that unmetered meant just that.

TerryP
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Geelong

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by TerryP » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:25 am

ForumAdmin wrote:From midnight tonight we will start shaping the 100 heaviest down loaders in the off peak period to test the new shaping implementation (that can be deployed in every State and Territory).

From December 1st we will use block pages at 60 gb and 65gb of off peak use that the user has to un-block after acknowledging that his/her internet service will be suspended if he goes one byte past the notified limit.

At 70 gb (at the moment being 10 gb below the 'hard' limit)) the block page will appear and can be released but the service will be slowed to 64 kbps in the off peak period.
Hallelujah! Finally a good system that should bring back some decent speeds overnight. In fact it seems to be already working as I had noticed things to be quite sprightly tonight, unlike recent times. Plus there will be the safety net of the block page in place (although the 65gb block seems a little redundant given the other two block points.)

I like it a lot.

TerryP
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Geelong

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by TerryP » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:45 am

rseydler wrote:If the service is slowed will VOIP still work?
If you use codecs like G.729 or iLBC or even the inferior GSM you will not likely hear a difference.

Let's face it, most people happily use mobilephones that use the GSM codec.

Peleus
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Wollongong

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Peleus » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:26 am

Hmm looks like I'm in the top 100 as well.

FA - Can you please post how much the "100th" person has downloaded, so we know how we stand in comparison? As some feedback for your shaping system - currently can't browse the majority of websites without it timing out. Maximum download speed is 2 kbps. I understand that the purpose is to slow the usage down, but it's essentially become unusable. Obviously this will come across as bias because it appears that I'm subject to the restriction, but I don't think any of us likes having been told one thing - acting on that information - then being told another thing half way through and being punished as a result. Hey you can do whatever you like from December 1st - at least then it's fair for us to act on what we know the rules to be.

Saying all that - don't let that stop anyone ignore the content of the post, and simply state "OMG you're in the top 100 - get off the network".

P.s. I've downloaded less than 100gb, which while large isn't the ridiculous 200gb+ total's being mentioned.

cdonges
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Toowoomba, Australia

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by cdonges » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:29 am

I downloaded just over 100GB. I can't even open this forum if I use my exetel connection. I wonder if exetel will be getting lots of support calls from people whose internet performance has died for no reason and with no notification?

flak
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 7:17 am

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by flak » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:35 am

It seems this morning I am one of the lucky people to have been chosen to particpate in the shaping trial.

Before the AUP change was announced on the 16th I was averaging about 6GB per off-peak period. Since the AUP change was announced I have been averaging 600MB per off-peak period. I would have reduced this more, but given the 5GB peak allowance which goes with these uncharged plans, I am alomost into charged peak territory.

While I realise something needed to be done to control the downloading frenzy, I require a working internet connection 24x7 for work support reasons. At the moment pages are constantly timing out and I dread to think how VPNing to work will function. Is it possible to pay a fee to return my connection to a usable state during the off-peak for the remainder of this month?

I will be changing back to the closest thing to my normal plan next month, and waiting for the uncharged option to mature, which my common sense suggested before my naiive optimism took over late last month.

Peleus
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Wollongong

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Peleus » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:45 am

I guess saying that you shouldn't be running critical services on a residential connection isn't so helpful at the moment.

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:56 am

flak wrote:It seems this morning I am one of the lucky people to have been chosen to particpate in the shaping trial.

Before the AUP change was announced on the 16th I was averaging about 6GB per off-peak period. Since the AUP change was announced I have been averaging 600MB per off-peak period. I would have reduced this more, but given the 5GB peak allowance which goes with these uncharged plans, I am alomost into charged peak territory.

While I realise something needed to be done to control the downloading frenzy, I require a working internet connection 24x7 for work support reasons. At the moment pages are constantly timing out and I dread to think how VPNing to work will function. Is it possible to pay a fee to return my connection to a usable state during the off-peak for the remainder of this month?

I will be changing back to the closest thing to my normal plan next month, and waiting for the uncharged option to mature, which my common sense suggested before my naiive optimism took over late last month.
It seems strange that a 64 kbps connection would produce such unusability but I accept that's what you are experiencing. We will cease the trial sometime later today when we have collected enough data to make it a useful test.

Locked