Change to AUP - Section (d)

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
alinos
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by alinos » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:43 am

i think youll find that most of the people will have no problem staying under the ~80 GB mark the only reason people went overboard this month was because they either misunderstood the term uncharged, figured itd only last a month and went nuts accordingly or saw that there was no clause in the terms of use prior that warranted regulating there use

some people went overboard sure i can say i fit into that group since i let steam recover itself after the drive it was on failed loosing my 300GB of games i have no problem gradually restoring it but i figured as long as it says uncharged( i took it as unlimited) that i may as well just sit it to download each night

ausduckz
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ausduckz » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:56 pm

*Scratches head*

Very confused about this metering issue now.

James
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by James » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:09 pm

alinos wrote:i think youll find that most of the people will have no problem staying under the ~80 GB mark the only reason people went overboard this month was because they either misunderstood the term uncharged, figured itd only last a month and went nuts accordingly or saw that there was no clause in the terms of use prior that warranted regulating there use

some people went overboard sure i can say i fit into that group since i let steam recover itself after the drive it was on failed loosing my 300GB of games i have no problem gradually restoring it but i figured as long as it says uncharged( i took it as unlimited) that i may as well just sit it to download each night
Why would you need to recover 300GB of Steam games? Do you play that many games at once?

alinos
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by alinos » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:57 pm

no theve gradually built up over time but since im on a 1500 line it take a while to download these in the offpeak

and its nice to have them there when i want to play them not oh gotta w8 two nights of off peak to download them

was the only good thing about the old telstra plan unmetered steam content

also unlike most other people round here who probs just torrent there games off the interwebz i actually prefer to pay for them

and as i stated ill grab them over a spread out period now but since there was no specified limit beforehand i said what the heck why not, also its not just me that plays the games in steam since i only need one copy on the network for multiple users

adamdmills
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by adamdmills » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:52 am

The important issue here, I would have thought, isn't whether somebody chooses to download games from Steam or a massive pile of porn or lossless Grateful Dead live recordings, but the execution of Exetel's "uncharged" plans. What people download is their business, assuming it's legal (and, though I know this will surprise a lot of people, there are plenty of ways to chew through 100gb a month (or more) without breaking any laws).

As of December, though, I'm expecting everything to go back to normal. 79.5gb is the new 60gb, and I'm more than happy to stick to that.

alinos
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by alinos » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:44 pm

yep i have no problem with that :P

David R
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by David R » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:47 pm

Exetel offer a plan that gives you 90gb/month - by what logic shouldn't we be entitled to utilise 100% of that?
It is not mine to correct poor assumptions but Exetel "gives you no 90 gb plan". (See What is an Off peak exactly worth......... for some background) The residential ADSL marketed by Exetel are all subject to a split (24hr) system with plans sold in sizes up to 50 gig Prepaid-creating the (uncharged) byproduct of provision, the Off Peak.
AVERAGE Off Peak a 26.5 gb quantity increases monthly; As such, it can be multiplied/utilised (eg. by 3x) but only by as many times as we'd feel comfortable having our throughput divided/throttled - bandwidth being a finite resource and that is the logic behind it

The other point to take is the ISP wants a sale in time for Christmas (as is natural): it "Offered for sale Five (5) gb Pre-paid +Uncounted" to attract customers to the network and otherwise measure its take up..... then ensues 'the chaos'as a group of hungry subscribers race to force Five HUNDRED (500) to 100 gigabytes which would obviously defeat the exercise (Refer my previous point).
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David R
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by David R » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:01 pm

As chance would have it the (AAPT) experiment out of which some of Exetel's plan appear modeled, also has the '5 gb/mth subscribers' that eat up many many times more data than their contribution adds to a system, their hours advertised as "8 pm - 8 am unlimited". . . But one needs to look at the differences here in order to see into the issue.

Firstly, $89.95 ADSL2 plan (:AAPT) based on a lengthy contract (:24 mths),
compared to $55.00(downward to !$40.00-if you count Naked) in Exetel pricing its ADSL2 equivalent service
and so you see it clearly one is cheaper (at $55, =$35 savings), but obviously at a cost of less margin for bandwidth;

and 2nd difference, as shared in ForumA's diary here http://johnl.blogs.exetel.com.au/index. ... ......html inside paragraph 3 (re: AAPT), "...owned network and that peak time for them probably ends before 8 pm"

Which I believe is saying before it unleashed unlimited (in August 2009) it likely derived some benefit from its ownership of connectivity and IP supplied by parent company, and that also it might had a lower percentage of 'high data/techie' base of subscribers (a history of revenue collected from talk plan' offerings) - all supporting it.

Come September Exetel had pushed the start time of Off Peak to 2 am which reverses the network peak from occurring 10 pm-evenings to 10 am-mornings instead; then on top of this he would try and emulate his competitor by including "no charge" with some off peak plans. Sure enough, Exetel is now giving more product away for free, or at least attempting to spruik the bonus to appear in ballpark range of what others are perceived to be offering.

The problem, if not already clear, is How do you maintain a 80 gb-and-growing bonus (call it a 3 x multiplier of the moving average Off Peak) while supporting it with plans based as low as '5 gig'. The average usage, reportedly 26.5 gb, far exceeds the 5 gb Prepaid-put in by those users...and its not hard to believe this ADSL2 plan actually download as much as/more than users on any other plan/speed service. Plans which arguably contribute to a Denial of Service for other groups cannot be a good thing. Is there really a desire for this new type of user?

Does Exetel eventually cut Bittorrent to 10% of overall streams; or perhaps take 10 Mbps users down to 2 Mbps by capping threads until the clock strikes 12 pm?

I would guess (AAPT) approached it by first having one very very deep trough in its network graph-possibly Gigabits of capacity laying idle throughout the evening/early morning. Higher contribution margin from plans I imagine would also help with more headroom of bandwidth.

Observing our 'weekly graph' the peak and off peak might as well be permanently reversed ... but I'm reserving judgement as I'm not disturbed by the appearance of a graph nor the "uncharged (3x average)" having a novelty impact over the Summer months.

For now, things will be improved significantly if Exetel can actually get the 5 gb subscribers using above their quotas during Peak ..hopefully to translate into high downloaders moving up plans over time. Worst thing could happen is a 5 +80 gb group of clients become settled - comfortably draining the O/P free quota - as may have been indicated by some low (eg.$40/mo Naked) ADSL2-plans take up in November.

If No Frills ADSL1 'PAYG services' could be given an 'Uncharged-Off Peak', I'd imagine it would be welcomed highly and exercised responsibly.

Disclaimer: My views and my thoughts - merely a consumer, IP(/Exetel) service.
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cdonges
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by cdonges » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:26 pm

Why not just make off peak 2x peak? The 5GB 'abuser' can have 10GB off peak and I can have 90GB off peak. Those who pay more get more. Everyone happy?

adamdmills
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by adamdmills » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:32 am

It is not mine to correct poor assumptions but Exetel "gives you no 90 gb plan". (See What is an Off peak exactly worth......... for some background) The residential ADSL marketed by Exetel are all subject to a split (24hr) system with plans sold in sizes up to 50 gig Prepaid-creating the (uncharged) byproduct of provision, the Off Peak.
AVERAGE Off Peak a 26.5 gb quantity increases monthly; As such, it can be multiplied/utilised (eg. by 3x) but only by as many times as we'd feel comfortable having our throughput divided/throttled - bandwidth being a finite resource and that is the logic behind it
I'm sorry, but how is interpreting 30gb peak + 60gb offpeak as a 90gb plan a "poor assumption"? To the average user, who doesn't spend their time investigating the ins and outs of how an ISP like Exetel work, it's a perfectly fair and logical understanding of the plan. None of the nitty gritty details you have explained regarding how the offpeak comes about changes the fact that when I signed up to Exetel, it was under the impression that downloading my full monthly allowance was perfectly within my rights as a paying customer.

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CoreyPlover
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:45 am

You are perfectly entitled to download your full monthly allowance. In fact, you can even exceed it and pay the excess usage fees (though under the AUP Exetel can discontinue your service or move you to a more appropriate plan if the need arises).

I think the intention was to highlight how the off-peak (60GB) is a "bonus", so your plan is actually a 30GB peak plan with bonus off-peak quota that is subject to change at any time
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David R
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by David R » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:22 pm

Let us not lose sight of some definitions.
bo·nus
Something given or paid in addition to what is usual or expected. ie. "over and above", distinctively.
Unlimited \Un*lim"it*ed\
3. Unconfined; not restrained; unrestricted. - so an ISP can't really deliver this (strictly speaking)
free adjective adverb (NO CHARGE)
costing nothing; not needing to be paid for - and is true for Exetel' Off Peak (some plans)

...... I think the genesis of what I was saying is 'Cooperatives' only work if all members *cooperate*, failing which the ISP's terms would be Administrated.

My reading of a co-operative is that should I fund 45 (for Peak + "79.5" a massive Off Peak) gigabytes and not quite get round to fully utilising them, then I don't particularly object if some one else ends up using up what I've notionally made available to them, so long as the system remain available (when I do decide to use more later) and stays good for me. (other ISP's where the concept is a low starting quota and then everyone "pay, pay, pay" to get the upper hand of things leave me 'less interested' in their workings)

As I see Exetel's resolve is to bring the new/heavy GB's user's to more equitable means of payment or a shortened O/P hours in January, I look forward to seeing which formula it is they will adopt to balance our needs.

Obvious we all agree a 1 : 2 gb ratio is a fair deal
which could be used reasonably and logically and consumed to 100% well into the future, as we all would want to.

(alternatively) "PAYG50c/gb for the NF/1500" to go to 100GB (=$102 ) - is still a little costly for my taste in Exetel.
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ozblogger
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ozblogger » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:45 pm

It's 81GB now ...
Thanks for the extra 1.5 GB exetel !! :)

I think most users should be happy with this

alinos
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by alinos » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:40 pm

anychance the No charge on the usage meter can be replaced with the current Max since you guys said its subject to change

and also have you guys implemented the shaping feature this month, i only ask because if you have i actually wanna stay under that mark so i can use the internet when im awake if i end up near that end of the spectrum at the end of december

David R
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by David R » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:31 pm

cdonges wrote:Why not just make off peak 2x peak? The 5GB 'abuser' can have 10GB off peak and I can have 90GB off peak.
Actually not a bad idea.
Create the 5 gb user a nice "5 +10 gb plan" 2/3 available in quiet time; after '10 gigs' apply 128 Kbps Shaping; should they go past 3x peak (15 gb )move them to a sensible plan.

Users either decide "15 gb" is a decent enough plan for them (for $40);
Or they move their payment up to 45 gigabytes/mo to bypass shaping entirely, 81gb being less that 90 gb

Possible merits of this development -
128 Kbps shaping a 5 gb buffer should last up to 90 hours..1 week of 'bonus' time;

128 Kbps shaping should be perfect for low surfing, pod casts and radio streams .

Lock it in Steve Waddington
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