No limit = Unlimited

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
Peleus
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Wollongong

No limit = Unlimited

Post by Peleus » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:05 am

Hi all,

I'm currently on the $45.00 1500 12/"No limit" plan.

I could use more downloads, and I'm interested in switching to the "No limit = Unlimited" $50 plan instead. I'm wondering if we can get any assurances though that it's not going to be further "restricted" such as the last time it went to unlimited, and then the change to the AUP came in.

To be clear
- I don't have a problem with the current AUP
- I simply don't want to change to a plan on the basis of it being unlimited (offpeak) and paying $5 more, before getting restricted once more.

Anyone know?

Cheers.

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
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Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by CoreyPlover » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:51 pm

Peleus wrote:I'm wondering if we can get any assurances though that it's not going to be further "restricted" such as the last time it went to unlimited, and then the change to the AUP came in.
I doubt that any such assurances can be given; to do so would require clairvoyance. The terms and conditions have clauses that allows Exetel to vary them, with adequate notice. The off-peak period in particular has a clause that says Exetel can vary it, without notice.

However, three items that might give you increased confidence:
1. Exetel specifically chose the term "No charge" on the previous plans that had the 3 times average limit clause (they never used the term "unlimited" previously). The fact that they are now using the specific term "unlimited" suggests a radically different paradigm
2. Exetel senior management have, on several occasions, criticised other ISPs for saying "unlimited" and then having fine print that artificially bounds download quota. If they followed suit, they would be seen as being hypocrtitical and I think they would wish to avoid this unless it was absolutely imperative
3. Even if future terms were changed, I think the current terms state that Exetel will provide 30 days notice and waive termination fees should you wish to change ISPs. They have honoured this clause several times in the past
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Sgtspike
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by Sgtspike » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:50 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
Peleus wrote:I'm wondering if we can get any assurances though that it's not going to be further "restricted" such as the last time it went to unlimited, and then the change to the AUP came in.
I doubt that any such assurances can be given; to do so would require clairvoyance. The terms and conditions have clauses that allows Exetel to vary them, with adequate notice. The off-peak period in particular has a clause that says Exetel can vary it, without notice.

However, three items that might give you increased confidence:
1. Exetel specifically chose the term "No charge" on the previous plans that had the 3 times average limit clause (they never used the term "unlimited" previously). The fact that they are now using the specific term "unlimited" suggests a radically different paradigm
So does it indicate that, we won't be sent warnings or be given a monthly quota to work under with the "No charge" plans?

Please clarify

Sgtspike
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by Sgtspike » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:09 pm

Do I need to manually apply for that contract? Or will it be the changed over automatically next month?

Cheers

cdonges
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Toowoomba, Australia

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by cdonges » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:12 pm

sparkyboy767 wrote:what is considered high usage?
If they answer that question then they cease being unlimited!

So I don't think they will answer.

cdonges
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Toowoomba, Australia

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by cdonges » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:46 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:The uncharged plans have a clearly stated download allowance that is updated each month on the User Facilities.

If you go over that limit then you will be asked to find another provider.

If, currently, 89 gb off peak (on top of your peak allowance) is not sufficient for your needs then Exetel probably isn't the best service provider for you.
What about the unlimited plans?

CoreyPlover
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Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:06 pm

cdonges wrote:What about the unlimited plans?
By definition, "no limit".

But, remember that Exetel has always had the discretion to terminate your connection. So even though you might interpret the contract as allowing 1TB of downloads per month, the contract also says Exetel can terminate your service with adequate notice. Instead of trying to get 'permission' to download ludicrous amounts of data, how about just apply a little common sense and not abuse Exetel's generosity. It'll turn out better for everybody that way
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

cdonges
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Toowoomba, Australia

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by cdonges » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:08 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
cdonges wrote:What about the unlimited plans?
By definition, "no limit".

But, remember that Exetel has always had the discretion to terminate your connection. So even though you might interpret the contract as allowing 1TB of downloads per month, the contract also says Exetel can terminate your service with adequate notice. Instead of trying to get 'permission' to download ludicrous amounts of data, how about just apply a little common sense and not abuse Exetel's generosity. It'll turn out better for everybody that way
Um, so what is the limit for unlimited plans?

CoreyPlover
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Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:33 pm

cdonges wrote:Um, so what is the limit for unlimited plans?
Um...how about reading what I posted:
CoreyPlover wrote:By definition, "no limit".
Some things to bear in mind:
1. Exetel have "No charge" plans that contain an off-peak soft limit published in the member facilties each month. The plan pages specifically identified "No limit" as being different to "no charge" This should give you confidence in the choice of terminology Exetel have used: "No limit" is pretty unambiguous in my vocabulary. It means "no limit".
2. HOWEVER...my post is meant to bring to your direct attention that Exetel can terminate your contract at any time, so long as they give adequate notice and waiver of early termination fees (or in the case that there is evidence of illicit activity, can terminate without notice or waiver of fees).

So while the contractual terms relating to the "No limit" plans imply "download to your hearts content", the prudent end user will realise that doing so may incur termination of service notwithstanding the download quota wording.

My persona take on this (and note that I'm just a moderator and not an Exetel staff) is that if you constantly download large amounts, you are setting yourself up to have your service terminated. If you are a regular user and in one month that usage spikes to exceed 89GB off-peak, then Exetel will probably not concern themselves with it. It all has to do with Exetel's principle for "unlimited" plans; that is they are not there to be abused, but are there to ensure users do not get penalised for abnormal or irregular internet activity.

Sometimes you have to realise that life is not always about black and whites and clear limits. "Acceptable usage policies" do not set out explicit terms of usage. Many concepts of law are about "reasonable expectations", etc. So I reiterate: don't abuse the plan and everybody wins
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

cdonges
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Location: Toowoomba, Australia

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by cdonges » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:36 pm

So, going by your theory the limit is somewhere between 89GB (A figure that I can't see) and 1000GB.

I just want to know where I stand and now I guess I do. The limit for unlimited is basically the same as uncharged if you want to be sure you won't get booted.

CoreyPlover
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Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:38 pm

cdonges wrote:I just want to know where I stand and now I guess I do. The limit for unlimited is basically the same as uncharged if you want to be sure you won't get booted.
I would agree with this. I think that if you restrict yourself to about 90GB per month, the argument can be made that you are within the soft limits for "No Charge" plans and therefore (by inference) this should be acceptable for the "No limit" plans as well.

I'm sure the unlimited plans allow for the discretion of higher usage than this, but as you have no doubt recognised, the policy is unclear above this point.

Perhaps wait for a few months, then revisit these forums. Exetel management used to post a list of the top 10 or top 50 downloaded amounts for given months (no user details, just the amounts of the highest 50 downloaders). This may provide some quantitative data on which to base such assessments of usage upon.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Tazz
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:05 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by Tazz » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:15 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
cdonges wrote:I just want to know where I stand and now I guess I do. The limit for unlimited is basically the same as uncharged if you want to be sure you won't get booted.
I would agree with this. I think that if you restrict yourself to about 90GB per month, the argument can be made that you are within the soft limits for "No Charge" plans and therefore (by inference) this should be acceptable for the "No limit" plans as well.

I'm sure the unlimited plans allow for the discretion of higher usage than this, but as you have no doubt recognised, the policy is unclear above this point.

Perhaps wait for a few months, then revisit these forums. Exetel management used to post a list of the top 10 or top 50 downloaded amounts for given months (no user details, just the amounts of the highest 50 downloaders). This may provide some quantitative data on which to base such assessments of usage upon.
Being on the FP-C3 plan which is "Unlimited" in offpeak I don't see the 89gig soft limit amount that 'uncharged' plans see, is there any way for us to find out what the uncharged soft limit is each month? so we have a guide to go by...

CoreyPlover
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Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:12 pm

Tazz wrote:is there any way for us to find out what the uncharged soft limit is each month? so we have a guide to go by...
Not sure.

Because if this amount is shown in the user facilities, people will mistakenly think the soft limit applies to "No limit" plans, which it doesn't. My understanding is that you can download unlimited amounts on the "No limit". I am only stating the risk of termination of contract because it would make sense to apply such discretion to serial download abusers.

It is more a matter of curbing your downloads yourself but you are welcome to return to the forums, every month, and make a request for the current "No charge" soft limit. I can easily make the topic a sticky within the relevant forum and posts can be appended to it each month if you like
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

jubba
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:21 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by jubba » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:16 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
cdonges wrote:I just want to know where I stand and now I guess I do. The limit for unlimited is basically the same as uncharged if you want to be sure you won't get booted.
I would agree with this. I think that if you restrict yourself to about 90GB per month, the argument can be made that you are within the soft limits for "No Charge" plans and therefore (by inference) this should be acceptable for the "No limit" plans as well.

I'm sure the unlimited plans allow for the discretion of higher usage than this, but as you have no doubt recognised, the policy is unclear above this point.

Perhaps wait for a few months, then revisit these forums. Exetel management used to post a list of the top 10 or top 50 downloaded amounts for given months (no user details, just the amounts of the highest 50 downloaders). This may provide some quantitative data on which to base such assessments of usage upon.
Uncharged means you don't download unreasonable amounts and exetel have said that anything more than 3times average download by user is unreasonable.

Unlimited means you can download as much you want. No limits. It would be unreasonable for exetel to kick you off they're network for downloading too much. Though exetel reserve the right to change their policy.

btw exetel can only cancel your if you breach agreement or acceptable use policy. Since unlimited =no limits you can be kicked of for downloading too much.

cdonges
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Toowoomba, Australia

Re: No limit = Unlimited

Post by cdonges » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:32 pm

Can I ask one simple question:

If I have unlimited off peak, can I download as much as I want in off peak without worrying about having my service terminated because I am 'unprofitable'?

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