Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

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lovs2look
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Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by lovs2look » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:06 pm

Sorry, but a noob at setting up my web space.
I have created my web page in Net Objects Fusion, but the only option to save as... is in a *.nod format. So I published it to IE8 and saved the site as index.html.
Stay with me...Locally it looks fine, but when I upload this web page and check it from Firefox, I see the text, but no graphics and links like 'contact me' don't work.
I know I'm close, but don't know Linux, so am probably screwing the path or something. Is there a sticky of a tutorial in basic web page creation and uploading somewhere?
It's not a complex site...very basic in fact, so there's no complex db's or media files...just can't quite get the right combination of files/paths etc.
site is at http://home.exetel.com.au/fixit/ if you wanna check it out.
Ummmmm...I hope that's enough info for someone to see where I went wrong.
Thanks for your time.

Lovs2look.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by CoreyPlover » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:11 am

Have you uploaded the images? What about the contact_me.html file? Where is that file (and other html files) uploaded to?

Edit: I see images are working now, but the paths now reference your local file names instead of the relative path names

CoreyPlover
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by CoreyPlover » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:29 am

You probably don't want to use the "save" feature of NetObjects as this saves your site in a NetObjects type file (i.e. *.nod). Look for a "publish" or "export site" feature instead. Get the files out of NetObjects as htm or html files and then upload them directly, without using IE8 to "save as". In fact, you might even be able to go straight to C:/Program Files/NetObjects/NetObjects Fusion Essentials/User Sites/FixIT/Local Publish and upload the files directly from there

Dazzled
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by Dazzled » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:28 am

I don't want to sound precious, but you should ditch NetObjects - that was a horrible piece of markup (374 lines) for such a simple workman-like concept, which should be only a half a page or less of html, with another very small css file. You don't need javascript for mouse effects. You don't need a table layout. You could have done a great job with nothing more than Notepad. I have ebooks on the topic, but if I think of a website I'll send you the link. You might find it easier to modify a well-written template with one eye on a reference manual, so I will see if I can spot an open-source template like yours. (I haven't had breakfast yet, and there are a few chores ahead).

Just some quickies:

Links on the Exetel server are being referred to like this which is Windows-centric:

Code: Select all

<A href="file:///C:/Program%20Files/NetObjects/NetObjects%20Fusion%20Essentials/User%20Sites/FixIT/Local%20Publish/html/services.html">services</A> 
Images have references like src="index_files/clearpixel.gif" yet I can't find the file. "./index_files/clearpixel.gif" is often a safer use of syntax. If the file exists in that subdirectory, can you set its permissions correctly using your ftp client? chmod to 705 generally works for everything on this server.

Dazzled
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by Dazzled » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:40 am

You can find 1300 odd html/css templates here http://www.opendesigns.org/ - browse and pick one.
Some useful information/code snippets for beginners is at http://webdesignguide.wfiedler-online.de/
The html reference is at http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/
The css reference is is at http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/

One very simple template that could quickly become your design is http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=1521, attached. Despite all that text, there is only a page of template html and 30 odd lines of css. Some mouse effects have been used. All the author asks of you is to leave the designer's name and copyright in the source.

The css file is where the display details are to be found, and altered as required - so you can use brighter fonts, stronger colours, more spaces, etc. Remove the filler text from the html file and put in your own. The only tool you need is Notepad.

Here is index.html for that template, as an example of how simple these pages can be:

Code: Select all

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<!--
Author: Reality Software
Website: http://www.realitysoftware.ca
Note: This is a free template released under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license, 
which means you can use it in any way you want provided you keep the link to the author intact.
-->
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title></title>
<link href="style.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
</head>
<body>
<div id="container">
	<!-- header -->
    <div id="header">
    	<div id="logo"><a href="#"><span class="brown"><strong>Your</strong></span> website name</a></div>
<div id="menu">
        	<ul>
              <li><a href="#">Home</a></li>
              <li><a href="#">About Us</a></li>
              <li><a href="#">Services</a></li>
              <li><a href="#">Pricing</a></li>
              <li><a href="#">Contacts</a></li>
          </ul>
      </div>
  </div>
    <!--end header -->
    <!-- main -->
    <div id="main">
          <div id="sidebar">
          <h2>Sidebar</h2>
          	<p><strong>Lorem Lipsum</strong> dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. <a href="#">Nullam pharetra</a> tempus nunc. Donec feugiat lorem nec odio. Mauris vitae nisi sed mi rhoncus ultrices.</p>
          	<p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Nullam pharetra tempus nunc. Donec feugiat lorem nec odio. Mauris vitae nisi sed mi rhoncus ultrices.</p>
          	<p>&nbsp;</p>
      </div>
          <div id="text" >
                <h1><strong>Welcome</strong></h1>
            <p><strong>Paperova</strong> is a free template released by <a href="http://www.realitysoftware.ca">Reality Software</a> under the <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/">Creative Commons Attribution   3.0</a> license, which means you can use it in any way you want provided you   keep the link to the author intact.</p>
                <ul>
                  <li>
                  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, </li>
                  <li>consectetuer adipiscing elit. </li>
                  <li>Maecenas ac lacus.   Etiam quis ante. </li>
                  <li>Nullam accumsan metus sit amet est. </li>
                  <li>Nullam diam. Nunc ac ipsum   at nisl pretium congue. </li>
                </ul>
                <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Phasellus ornare condimentum sem. Nullam a eros. Vivamus vestibulum hendrerit arcu. Integer a orci. Morbi nonummy semper est. </p>
                <blockquote>Donec at risus sed velit porta dictum. Maecenas condimentum orci aliquam nunc. Morbi nonummy tellus in nibh. Suspendisse orci eros, dapibus at, ultrices at, egestas ac, tortor. Suspendisse fringilla est id erat. Praesent et libero. Proin nisi felis, euismod a, tempus varius, elementum vel, nisl.</blockquote>
                <p>Fusce non magna sit amet enim suscipit feugiat. Fusce et leo. Maecenas massa libero, egestas sed, ultricies tempor, laoreet eget, nisl. Nunc eleifend, orci eu aliquet consequat, metus diam suscipit felis, in adipiscing sapien nisl vitae ipsum. Nunc dui ante, vestibulum eget, viverra sed, ullamcorper quis, est. Nullam varius nunc.</p>
            
      </div>
    </div>
    <!-- end main -->
    <!-- footer -->
    <div id="footer">
    <div id="left_footer"><span class="twenty">&copy; Copyright</span> 2008 <b>Paperova</b> design </div>
    <div id="right_footer">

<!-- Please do not change or delete this link. Read the license! Thanks. :-) -->
<span class="twenty">Design </span>by <a href="http://www.realitysoftware.ca" title="Website Design">Reality Software</a>

    </div>
  </div>
    <!-- end footer -->
</div>
</body>
</html>

lovs2look
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:34 pm
Location: Between chair and computer, Chiltern, Victoria

Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by lovs2look » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:35 pm

Wow! Thanks for all the replies guys, I'll have to review them carefully and make a few changes. I assumed that the publish feature DID export graphics and stuff, but obviously not. I'll try the copy of the files from the publish directory first and see how that goes.
As for chmod and stuff.....dunno what that's about. Looks like some crash courses in my future!
Anyway thanks for a place to start.

Cheers to all

Dazzled
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by Dazzled » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:14 pm

lovs2look, you have a lot of checking to do, and the example of a link I gave in my first post is, from the point of view of the server, totally meaningless. It is actually a windows address on your own computer. The file in the second example is either not in the server file system, or has permissions which make it invisible to the web server.

Seriously, you could alter that template above with your words and colours a lot quicker, and it is syntactically correct code. Your NetObjects job has 45 errors on that simple page. I know, as I have downloaded your file and passed it through checking software. To put it bluntly, that software is an out-of-date crock.

Re permissions: Every file and directory has an owner. Unlike Windows, Linux and Unix give each file and directory "permissions" to suit each process that might seek access. These are:
1 the user who "owns" the file;
2 other members of the user's group;
3 Other processes.
Each of these can have permision to read, and/or write, and/or execute. On this server, the user should have all permissions (111), the group needs none (=000) and Other should be able to read and execute (=101). Remember that the apache web server is owned by "Other" That is expressed as 111000101 which converted to octal (as used in the early days of computing) = 705 octal Setting all these is done from your ftp client when you transfer files.

lovs2look
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:34 pm
Location: Between chair and computer, Chiltern, Victoria

Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by lovs2look » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:03 am

Ok Ok! Don't beat me up...I googled free web creation software and that's the program that came up and looked like it might be easy to use. In fact it was easy for me to use. There is a paid version which seems very professional too, so I thought I would give it a go. Copyrighted in 2003, so it's not really that out-of-date. Locally I get no errors at all, looks fine in IE and firefox, but I can see that the file paths are wrong for the web server...as I said earlier.
As to the html code...it may be syntactically correct, and YOU may be able to make a web page quicker, but I have no idea of how to code in html, so it's not much use to me. Just paste that into notepad and up pops my web site? Okay...i'll give it a go and let you know what happens. And that's JUST index.html? So I have to use all that code for each page that I have? How would I link them all together? Where do you put graphics, if any? Ummm yeah, 'quicker' is very relative, isn't it?
What ever happened to WYSIWYG??? :?
About permissions, I didn't see anywhere to set those. Is that in the page creation software, or in CuteFTP, or on the web server? EDIT: Oops missed this earlier "Setting all these is done from your ftp client when you transfer files." Thanks.
Would it be simpler for me to make a Word document and save that as html? I can use Word.
Octal??? Holy crap. Never used Apache before, so I don't "remember" anything about user permissions.

CoreyPlover
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:23 am

lovs2look wrote:What ever happened to WYSIWYG??? :?
It is still there. The problem with most software that is user friendly and WYSIWYG is that it has to systematically create HTML markup and most programs do not optimise this HTML markup meaning the result is either non-compliant with some browsers, or bloated with unnecessary stuff. So, if you know what you are doing, manual HTML markup is more optimised. If you are unfamiliar with HTML then by all means use some authoring software.

Frontpage would be slightly better than Word. But by all means continue to use NetObjects if you like. Just use relative paths for all the hyperlinked files and images and then upload each file via the FTP clients and retain the same relative structure on the server, then it should all work.

So an <a href="file:///C:/Program%20Files/NetObjects/NetObjects%20Fusion%20Essentials/User%20Sites/FixIT/Local%20Publish/html/services.html">services</A> becomes simply <a href="services.html">services</A>, then you upload services.html into the same directory as index.html.

or you can have <img src="images/home.gif" /> and you upload home.gif into an images sub-directory relative to the index.html file.

You can also use <img src="../images/home.gif" /> to represent a relative path that traverse one directory back and then into an images sub directory or <img src="/images/home.gif" /> that represents the imsage sub directory beneath your web root directory.

Good luck

Dazzled
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by Dazzled » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:39 am

It's not all that bad. If you want to give the template method a go,
1 Save all the template files to a clean new folder (there's a download button at the top of the page);
2 Open up the template index.html file in a browser so you can see what it looks like;
3 Open up the same source file in your folder in Notepad.
4 Note that stuff in tags <...> is code. Mixed in there between tags is plain text.
5 Just cut out all that pseudo-Latin filler text, and put in your own. Leave the <tags> intact. Save regularly.
6 When that is done and saved to disk, refresh your browser (still at the saved file) to see what it looks like.

When you are pleased with the content, it's time to tackle the appearance. Open the .css file in Notepad and make any change you fancy to colours, margins, etc etc. Save from time to time, and refresh the browser to see what you have achieved. For detailed tag and css reference see the links I gave earlier. You probably won't need to unless curious.

When it looks right, transfer all the files to the Exetel computer. CuteFTP is more than adequate.

There is good WYSIWYG software about, but it's not meant for newbies, and good ones that write well-crafted code don't run on Windows. Much that does writes non-standard code that works properly on IE, but nothing else. Pros use specially sexed-up text editors.

The internet is a Unix creation, and a little Unix file knowledge is essential when working with web servers. Apache is the name of the Linux server application that hands out your creation to the wotld. Exetel's computer, to which you transfer files, is a Linux computer.

You can write a simple web page in your Office suite. The code is usually rough and bloated, but it works. Unfortunately it gets rather tricky when you want to link to multiple pages or include menus, and you can't do special effects or complex layouts.

Dazzled
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by Dazzled » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:20 am

For example, this took only a minute cutting and pasting into the template html. If you dont want the side bar, cut it. I think I would explain your business in it. You can adjust colours font size etc and generally zing it up in the css file. I am practised, bu you should manage this in reasonable time with thought.

They are not visible in this image, but the mouse effects are still present on the menu bar.
Attachments
Screenshot.png
Screenshot.png (242.87 KiB) Viewed 3364 times

lovs2look
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by lovs2look » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:33 am

Ok, once again, thanks for all the wonderful info. I have a lot to learn!
Surely somebody could write a program that does nice html and is easy to use...is it really that hard? *sorry - rant over*
And thanks Dazzled, didn't mean to have a go...just damn frustrating for a noob trying to put up a *simple* informational web page - sheesh!
Can I vote again for a simple tutorial and/or sticky in these forums that would assist a noob (like me!) to at least get the basics down? I would have thought if Exetel are hosting users pages, they may want them to comply with some sort of guidelines.
I didn't know the home page had to be index.html until I went scouring through these forums...so a sticky would be a great place to start, at least to give a simple framework to adhere to. Anyone willing to do something along these lines would get my vote for being an ace person...well kudos at least!
Again, many, many thanks to all for their suggestions, I'll try what you suggest Dazzled, but I can't try it till after hours at home.
Just plain ol' notepad 'ey? Who would've thunk it? Another useful tip for the sticky/tutorial. :wink:

Cheers,
Lovs2look.

Dazzled
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by Dazzled » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:27 pm

One more comment. In the template html file you will see that content items have id labels inside some <tags>, like id=something. The html file should ideally consist only of content - your title, text, any images, links and the like. These show up again in the css file as headings like #something {,,,; ,,,;} where there is a list of display instructions for that particular section. By changing these css lists you can control or transform the look of the whole thing.

lovs2look
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:34 pm
Location: Between chair and computer, Chiltern, Victoria

Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by lovs2look » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:45 pm

Ok, thanks dude.
Hopefully I won't have to bother with too much fiddling with css and the like as I downloaded a handful of templates, and have printed your instructions out, so when I get home I'm going to rip into it. Watch this space.
Hopefully I'll have a shiny new web page up by tonight...and correctly too!

Cheers,

Lovs2look.

P.S. If it works, I may just take the time to document the process so that others may benefit from my mistakes! :roll:

Dazzled
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Re: Trying to setup my web space, but having probs

Post by Dazzled » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:28 pm

For template 1521 watch the background images - you may have your text overflow them, particularly the header. If that happens, move them, or just get rid of them. Plain coloured backgrounds might be better for starters anyway.

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