HSPA VoIP Performance

Wireless broadband over 3G/4G
sqgl
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: HSPA VoIP on Nokia E75

Post by sqgl » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:30 pm

sqgl wrote:
sqgl wrote:
McMark wrote:I find that it doesn’t quite get to the point where my phone actually calls the number.
Same happens to me now with Nimbuzz. I don't have this problem with Fring.
Fixed it.
Needed to remove the +61 prefix on the outgoing call.
Today was not working. Just said "Setting up call to 02912345678"...
until I rebooted Symbian then it was fine. Perhaps only a reboot of Nimbuzz was necessary, but since the error is the same as yours I just wanted to remind you to reboot (apologies if this is obvious).

sqgl
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by sqgl » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:36 pm

gearo wrote:Hi all,
Just quickly reading comments above.
I have a nokia e71 and spent over 18 months playing with mobile voip and the exetel app including fring, nimbuzz etc etc etc.
Call quality is soooooh dependant on issues surrounding internet bandwidth, useage at that time, latencies etc etc that I have only come to learn about.
Some areas , some times.. absolutely perfect.... other times absolutely horrible and unuseable.
My solution...
Dare I suggest on this forum was another operator that uses voip mobile but thru their native gsm mobile gateway to their sip client.
Call costs are actually cheaper than any other with related lower sms,voice costs etc.
It was very frustrating to get on top of it , but is simply brilliant
Call quality is generally better than any standard mobile as it negates the leg of user to internet up front.
My comment is not an ad for this mob rather my experience and final result related to cheap voip mobile.
Yeah, nice to be able to use the native client. Not that I have(?) one on my Nokia 6120 classic.
I was selling the concept to a mail-list of friends then got an email reply saying the same as you:
>> I have the same Exetel HSPA account. My Nokia E71 has a VoIP client
>> built in. I use it with a p****tel account. I find using VoIP
>> over HSPA a bit crap. However using the VoIP client over a
>> wireless access point via ADSL is good.
But if I find exetel with Nimbuzz to be working well over the next few weeks then I will refute this.

Gidget
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 1816
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:33 am
Location: Sydney

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by Gidget » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:23 pm

sqgl wrote:Yeah, nice to be able to use the native client. Not that I have(?) one on my Nokia 6120 classic.
I was selling the concept to a mail-list of friends then got an email reply saying the same as you:
>> I have the same Exetel HSPA account. My Nokia E71 has a VoIP client
>> built in. I use it with a p****tel account. I find using VoIP
>> over HSPA a bit crap. However using the VoIP client over a
>> wireless access point via ADSL is good.
Has your friend tried using his E71 VOIP client with an Exetel VOIP service?

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

sqgl
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by sqgl » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:45 pm

Gidget wrote:
sqgl wrote:Yeah, nice to be able to use the native client. Not that I have(?) one on my Nokia 6120 classic.
I was selling the concept to a mail-list of friends then got an email reply saying the same as you:
>> I have the same Exetel HSPA account. My Nokia E71 has a VoIP client
>> built in. I use it with a p****tel account. I find using VoIP
>> over HSPA a bit crap. However using the VoIP client over a
>> wireless access point via ADSL is good.
Has your friend tried using his E71 VOIP client with an Exetel VOIP service?
Gidget
He tried NimBuzz & Fring so does that mean yes?

Furthermore, he says...
> A friend at work has a P****tel SIM mobile account with a Nokia E71,
> seems to be the best option.
>
> I'm thinking of moving to P****tel SIM from my Exetel HSPA as I
> already have a standard P****tel. The P****tel SIM comes with a sim
> card (duh) and uses the Optus HSPA network, same as Exetel. The good
> thing is that with the P****tel SIM you get Optus SMS. Which is not
> standard with the Exetel HSPA. Exetel HSPA comes with a java app that
> you download to do SMS via the web, it makes SMS very cheap but is a
> bit sucky.
If you got ammo I'll throw it his way.

Gidget
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 1816
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:33 am
Location: Sydney

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by Gidget » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:01 pm

sqgl wrote:He tried NimBuzz & Fring so does that mean yes?
Not necessarily :?: It depends on the SIP provider he is using with NimBuzz and Fring, not whether he is using NimBuzz or Fring.

Unless I'm reading your posts incorrectly, you/he seem to be saying that he has an Exetel HSPA service but that he doesn't have an Exetel VOIP service (rather, he uses p****tel). I was really trying to clarify whether in fact this is the case.

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

sqgl
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by sqgl » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:31 pm

Gidget wrote:
sqgl wrote:seem to be saying that he has an Exetel HSPA service but that he doesn't have an Exetel VOIP service (rather, he uses p****tel).
He said he is using p****tel for VOIP via his exetel HSPA sim. Unless he has another SIP server (unlikely) it means he is using exetel SIP server (but I will confirm with him).

Can you get access to exetel SIP without registering for exetel VOIP service?

Gidget
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 1816
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:33 am
Location: Sydney

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by Gidget » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:53 pm

sqgl wrote:Can you get access to exetel SIP without registering for exetel VOIP service?
I wouldn't think so.

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

doggy
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:18 pm
Location: Avalon, NSW

HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by doggy » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:44 pm

In my area (a number of towers from Palm Beach to Warriewood- Northern Beaches, Sydney) the performance of VOIP over 3/4G has become very bad (again) after a couple of months of "goodness". The problem is definitely the Optus performance-, which seems to be (again) over-extended.

I manage 4 different HSPA accounts across 5 different mobile phones of various sorts and the results are totally consistent. Performance is okay around 5-6am but the rest of the day is almost unuseable. I've been using the native Nokia SIP clients, all on G729. Also Fring and Nimbuzz are equally poor.

Exetel's VOIP is fine- it is just an Optus "overloaded" issue. I had the same problems last year in Melbourne and a couple of other areas in Sydney.

So, I'm seriously thinking of pulling the plug and moving to another provider (but not for my normal ADSL2 services- I'm perfectly happy with them- just the HSPA).

I'd be interested if other people are also experiencing issues.

I'm assuming that at some point Optus might provision more bandwidth and the problem could die down for a while, but then it will assuredly get worse again.

Probably just the result of fierce competition out there plus the fact that Optus probably does not care if VOIP is crappy as long as people can make regular cellular calls and use less critical Internet services.

Regds,
Dave

toast
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:52 pm

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by toast » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:15 pm

Hi,

Recently I've been having a few issues with the quality of the calls over VoIP. I'll re-read the 8 pages here to see what information I can get from everyone else's experiences.

The first issue is that when I make a call using the native client to my ADSL2 Exetel VoIP number the E-66 literally crashes and resets itself. When I call from my ADSL2 VoIP the call is connected and we can have a conversation. Almost the same problem occurs when I call my brother in melbourne on his Exetel VoIP service, except that instead of crashing the phone, it just rings then when he picks up, it hangs up. When he calls my HSPA VoIP however, the conversation works with lag that is 'normal.'

Another problem I've been having is when I listen to the other person talk, imagine that each second of their voice is split up into 10 'blocks' of 100ms voice content. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. I only hear the even number 'blocks' 2 4 6 8 10, it makes listening very difficult indeed. I've yet to ask them if that is how they experience my voice, although I suspect they would yell down the line 'wtf is going on with your voice?' So far the following problem has only occured twice, both to calls to mobiles, my layman idea is that the other carrier is sending Exetel a signal, that then gets poorly encoded before it is sent to my phone, or that on receiving it, my phone can't process it fast enough so drops half the packets.

My client is a follows:

Nokia E-66 using the native client

Use compression: Off
Use security: No
Proxy Transport type: Auto
Registrar Transport type: UDP (probably sohuld set the proxy to UDP also)

I've installed Nokia's SIP VoIP Settings application and it has the following

Profile Settings:
Media QoS: 46
Start media port: 49152
End media port: 65534
DTMF inband: on
DTMF outband: on
Allow VoIP over WCDMA: on
RTPC reporting: off
UA Header:term.type: on
UA Header: MAC address off
UA header free string empty
Secure call preference: prefer non-secure
Count of VoIP digits: 10
Ignoring domain part: Numbers-only

Codecs
1. G729
Ptime: 20
maxptime: 200
Jitter buffer size: 200
Voice activ.detection: off
AnnexB: off

With both problems, I have not tried using Nimbuzz or Fring to see if the same problems exist, so I can try that out tonight.

The third problem, now that I think about it, is that with all calls, the first few seconds always begin with 'hello? hi, hello? are you there? Who is this?' when the call packets to begin with seem to take a while to get a stable connection? Do others experience this? From my anecdotal observations I find that it is worse when calling mobiles than calling landlines.

doggy
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:18 pm
Location: Avalon, NSW

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by doggy » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:45 pm

Check you have excellent 3G signal and that this does not decrease when you put the phopne to your head.

Make sure there are no other codecs (delete them) or Exetel will use G711 even if lower in the list.

Turn off inband DTMF (unsuitable for G729 & you have outband ticked as well!) But that is not your main problem.

Rest of your config looks okay. You could monitor your connection (which is do-able on the Nokia) and see what sort of bandwidth you are getting. I also installed the Ozone browser which allowed me to do speed tests up and down. If you know your IP address, you can also ping the phone and do packet loss and response tests.

I have the same sorts of problems with two E63s and am about to port them to a competitor with a "different way of doing it" ie cellular to a base station then VOIP from there.

The basic problem is likely to be Optus congestion (though in fairness, your problem could be poor 3G reception). In my case I proved it was Optus but they are not interested.

So, if you do the measurements I suggest, you will likely come to the same conclusion (Optus congestion) and just as likely they will be totally disinterested and make up lots of excuses not to listen to you. Exetel cannot do much or anything other than pass on the complaint.

If you read the rest of my posts you will see the patterns are very clear. I bet your phone calls between 10pm and 7am are perfect.

I already ported away my E61i HSPA and am very happy. Sad because Exetel HSPA is an excellent product- just let down by Optus. The performance problems (for me) started when the iPhone/Optus became very popular.

Dave

sqgl
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by sqgl » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:36 pm

I can't even make calls to an actual full Optus mobile user! No ringing tone whatsoever. Exetel said they would call Optus about it but I never heard back from Exetel (probably because Exetel never heard back from Optus). Another Exetel user JasonM kindly tested this number with his own HSPA service and had no problem.

PS with other numbers I call I have the same lag and choppiness problems (50% of the time) as others do. Have yet to detect a pattern.

toast
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:52 pm

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by toast » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:56 pm

Regarding the no ring tone thing. Sometimes I've rung someone and there wasn't a ring tone, however their phone was ringing and when they picked up everything was fine. That may have been because of my bung settings above that doggy points out is unsuitable with an exclamation :)

sqgl
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by sqgl » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:25 pm

toast wrote:Regarding the no ring tone thing. Sometimes I've rung someone and there wasn't a ring tone, however their phone was ringing and when they picked up everything was fine.
In my case I know definitely didn't ring because the other person was in the room with me.

toast
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:52 pm

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by toast » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:32 pm

I never thought to ping my E-66, what a crazy idea :) From my work behind iiNet

Here are my worthless results to the rest of ya :)

3 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms nexthop.wa.iinet.net.au [203.59.14.16]
4 22 ms 23 ms 22 ms gi2-3.per-qv1-bdr2.iinet.net.au [203.215.4.30]
5 80 ms 80 ms 80 ms te1-0-1.per-qv1-bdr1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.130]
6 78 ms 79 ms 79 ms te0-0-0.syd-ult-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.6]
7 79 ms 79 ms 79 ms as10143.sydney.pipenetworks.com [218.100.2.16]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 79 ms 79 ms 79 ms 45.2.233.220.static.exetel.com.au [220.233.2.45]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 164 ms 162 ms 165 ms ADSL2+ in Perth
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=163ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=334ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=164ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=161ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=163ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=167ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=164ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=161ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=202ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=166ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=163ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=164ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=164ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=161ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=166ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=166ms TTL=119
Reply from ADSL2+ in Perth: bytes=32 time=167ms TTL=119

Then to my HSPA
3 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms nexthop.wa.iinet.net.au [203.59.14.16]
4 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms gi2-3.per-qv1-bdr1.iinet.net.au [203.215.4.28]
5 79 ms 78 ms 81 ms te0-0-0.syd-ult-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.6]
6 80 ms 79 ms 79 ms as10143.sydney.pipenetworks.com [218.100.2.16]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 81 ms 80 ms 79 ms 45.2.233.220.static.exetel.com.au [220.233.2.45]
9 92 ms 92 ms 91 ms 2.2.96.58.static.exetel.com.au [58.96.2.2]
10 93 ms 91 ms 92 ms 67.2.96.58.static.exetel.com.au [58.96.2.67]
11 1333 ms * 1445 ms HSPA in Perth on E-66

I'm in West Perth when conducting these tests, the phone has a full battery and a full signal bar solid. When pinging it, sometimes it would consistently get 250ms, 320ms, or 450ms, and occasionally time out and then have 1200ms+ for one packet and back to the ‘normal.’ But the first ping is always way high. So it would seem that it's technically possible to get solid 250ms if there isn't any other congestion. But I'll double check that test tonight at 1am.

Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=1353ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=434ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=450ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=407ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=443ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=422ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=499ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=436ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=501ms TTL=60
Request timed out.
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=1238ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=472ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=423ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=419ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=409ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=449ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=445ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=405ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=406ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=405ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=441ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=448ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=445ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=423ms TTL=60

lambretta
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: Perth

Re: HSPA VoIP Performance

Post by lambretta » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:27 pm

toast wrote:Hi,

Another problem I've been having is when I listen to the other person talk, imagine that each second of their voice is split up into 10 'blocks' of 100ms voice content. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. I only hear the even number 'blocks' 2 4 6 8 10, it makes listening very difficult indeed. I've yet to ask them if that is how they experience my voice, although I suspect they would yell down the line 'wtf is going on with your voice?' So far the following problem has only occured twice, both to calls to mobiles, my layman idea is that the other carrier is sending Exetel a signal, that then gets poorly encoded before it is sent to my phone, or that on receiving it, my phone can't process it fast enough so drops half the packets.
I'm in Perth.

Android phone (ADP1) and use Sipdroid as my SIP client on the phone, it is connected to my asterisk box back home as an extension. I have had similar experiences with inbound voice recently. Sipdroid only support G711.

I updated my client yesterday and a call this morning was not subject to the stuttery inbound voice, it was very clear. Not sure if this is becasue of the updated client or because of better Optus network performance. Test call made to land and mobile this morning and voice inbound was fine.
toast wrote:
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=1353ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=434ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=450ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=407ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=443ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=422ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=499ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=436ms TTL=60
Reply from HSPA in Perth on E-66: bytes=32 time=501ms TTL=60
I'm in Perth CBD (QV1) and ping time from work to my phone are similar to what you have shown above.

The first 5 seconds after the called party picks up is silent, conversations always start with "Can you hear me? Hello?"

I'm not sure but perhaps Optus 3G is not up to the task or VoIP.

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