Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Discussions regarding new & existing plans and other Exetel initiatives
ForumAdmin
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Location: Sydney

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:54 am

maddanno wrote:I ask the same as Col above..... Does the plan stay shaped. For $6 per GB I assume not as Exetel really wants to make the $$$ out of the situation.

I think Cols Idea of providing a "cutoff" where you are directed to a page (similar to the one that is recieved when you type an incorrect password into your modem) is a better one as I believe this will continue to be of benefit to genuine customers who want to safeguard their monthly payments AND totally eliminate the aparrent abuse that is taking place, as currently observed by a number of dissapointed Exetel Executives.
No - the speed returns to full speed.

PM
Posts: 76
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Location: Hobart

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by PM » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:43 am

maddanno wrote:
PM wrote:Great idea. Will be "interesting" to read the banter/whinging on the Whirlpool forum.
Personally I would have set the after shaping limit to 100MB. 2GB is too generous.
One can do a lot of web surfing and email on 100MB.
LOL If you l find whirlpool banter interesting then you need a life. As for 100MB being a lot for Web Surfing it may be time to sell you 486 as it is not 1996 anymore. Netscape is dead. Many Websites now have things called jpegs and flash plugins embedded in them.
I'm contemplating ditching PayTV, so am looking for a new source of entertainment. :mrgreen:

As far as the 100MB goes. What I am hinting at is that users need to take responsibility for their usage. 2GB excess isn't going to encourage that.

PM
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Location: Hobart

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by PM » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:48 am

Gidget wrote:
PM wrote:Personally I would have set the after shaping limit to 100MB. 2GB is too generous.One can do a lot of web surfing and email on 100MB.
By the way, 1 GB is 1,000 MB not 100 MB ;-) 2 GB is therefore even more generous than you might think :-)

Gidget
Actually Gidget I meant 100MB. Not 1000MB. It wasn't a typo! :shock:

ForumAdmin
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Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:07 am

For the people who observed that "shaping doesn't work" - there is an anomaly in that the bandwidth restrictions are placed only on the 'expensive' international links from Optus and Verizon.

This has an apparently strange effect of meaning that P2P and common files that are sourced from:

1) Other Exetel users
2) PeerApp cache
3) Akamai cache
4) PIPE
5) WAIX

aren't constrained at all and, because of the efficiency of the caching devices, can sometimes actually 'speed up' rather than be 'slowed down' using the shaping option.

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:19 am

For those people who queried why it was necessary to implement the changes announced yesterday this is the type of user who no ISP, as far as I'm aware, can afford to have as a customer:

Service Number: 035672nnnn
Network N-K Status: Exetel VIC N-K
Service Plan Name: TELP - 8192/384 - $95.00 - 54000 (MB)

11/2008 (4 days) Uploaded:2879.41MB (2.87941 GB) Downloaded:27950.06MB (27.95006 GB) Total Usage:30829.47MB (30.82947 GB)
10/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:56933.09MB (56.93309 GB) Downloaded:191616.60MB (191.6166 GB) Total Usage:248549.69MB (248.54969 GB)
09/2008 (30 days) Uploaded:44105.78MB (44.10578 GB) Downloaded:118292.25MB (118.29225 GB) Total Usage:162398.03MB (162.39803 GB)
08/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:43782.54MB (43.78254 GB) Downloaded:124546.40MB (124.5464 GB) Total Usage:168328.94MB (168.32894 GB)
07/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:38321.91MB (38.32191 GB) Downloaded:125750.51MB (125.75051 GB) Total Usage:164072.42MB (164.07242 GB)
06/2008 (27 days) Uploaded:33920.81MB (33.92081 GB) Downloaded:102945.62MB (102.94562 GB) Total Usage:136866.43MB (136.86643 GB)

davidotas
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Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by davidotas » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:34 am

I have to say I think this is rubbish. I thought the whole point of shaping is so we CAN'T take advantage or "abuse the system"??

The other point of it is so I don't have to worry about getting charged extra, as I accept that if I get my 48gb by the 15th of the month that I'm just going to have very slow speeds for the rest of the month and I shouldn't have downloaded so much.

If Exetel or whatever is responsible for not shaping, then who's to say that when I hit 48gb next month that it's not going to just run straight over to 51gb without slowing at all?

I am fine with the already generous 48gb, but I chose shaping because I would rather be inconvenienced by slow speeds rather than by being charged per gig I go over. And also, perhaps more importantly, because I don't want to think about how much I'm downloading or have to worry about it and monitor it, JUST SHAPE ME like you said you were going to!

I'm going to assume that this new rule is coming into place not because of people who "abuse the system" but because Exetel is simply unable to effectively implement the shaping.

ForumAdmin
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Location: Sydney

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:45 am

davidotas wrote:
1) If Exetel or whatever is responsible for not shaping, then who's to say that when I hit 48gb next month that it's not going to just run straight over to 51gb without slowing at all?


2) I'm going to assume that this new rule is coming into place not because of people who "abuse the system" but because Exetel is simply unable to effectively implement the shaping.
1) You will get your service 'blocked' and a warning that if you continue to download beyond 2 gb you will incur charges.

2) You can, of course, assume what you like. If you believe there is an ISP who provides a better plan capability than 12 hours each day where you can download 48 gb of data at no charge then I'm sure you will churn away from Exetel to that ISP. It really is surprising that anyone would find something to quibble about in being given so much for nothing and then complaining they should have even more. But, that's Australia today I suppose.

Fortunately for you, you aren't forced to use Exetel and there are dozens of other ISPs to choose from so it's not as though you are 'locked in' and can't remedy what ever you perceive your problem to be by simply moving elsewhere.

PM
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Location: Hobart

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by PM » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:01 am

ForumAdmin wrote:For those people who queried why it was necessary to implement the changes announced yesterday this is the type of user who no ISP, as far as I'm aware, can afford to have as a customer:

Service Number: 035672nnnn
Network N-K Status: Exetel VIC N-K
Service Plan Name: TELP - 8192/384 - $95.00 - 54000 (MB)

11/2008 (4 days) Uploaded:2879.41MB (2.87941 GB) Downloaded:27950.06MB (27.95006 GB) Total Usage:30829.47MB (30.82947 GB)
10/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:56933.09MB (56.93309 GB) Downloaded:191616.60MB (191.6166 GB) Total Usage:248549.69MB (248.54969 GB)
09/2008 (30 days) Uploaded:44105.78MB (44.10578 GB) Downloaded:118292.25MB (118.29225 GB) Total Usage:162398.03MB (162.39803 GB)
08/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:43782.54MB (43.78254 GB) Downloaded:124546.40MB (124.5464 GB) Total Usage:168328.94MB (168.32894 GB)
07/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:38321.91MB (38.32191 GB) Downloaded:125750.51MB (125.75051 GB) Total Usage:164072.42MB (164.07242 GB)
06/2008 (27 days) Uploaded:33920.81MB (33.92081 GB) Downloaded:102945.62MB (102.94562 GB) Total Usage:136866.43MB (136.86643 GB)

:shock: :shock: :shock:
What the HELL does that person download. Is there enough time to watch, read , listen to or WHATEVER with all that data?
NO ISP would want that sort of client!

dbr
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Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by dbr » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:20 am

ForumAdmin wrote:For those people who queried why it was necessary to implement the changes announced yesterday this is the type of user who no ISP, as far as I'm aware, can afford to have as a customer:

Service Number: 035672nnnn
Network N-K Status: Exetel VIC N-K
Service Plan Name: TELP - 8192/384 - $95.00 - 54000 (MB)

11/2008 (4 days) Uploaded:2879.41MB (2.87941 GB) Downloaded:27950.06MB (27.95006 GB) Total Usage:30829.47MB (30.82947 GB)
10/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:56933.09MB (56.93309 GB) Downloaded:191616.60MB (191.6166 GB) Total Usage:248549.69MB (248.54969 GB)
09/2008 (30 days) Uploaded:44105.78MB (44.10578 GB) Downloaded:118292.25MB (118.29225 GB) Total Usage:162398.03MB (162.39803 GB)
08/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:43782.54MB (43.78254 GB) Downloaded:124546.40MB (124.5464 GB) Total Usage:168328.94MB (168.32894 GB)
07/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:38321.91MB (38.32191 GB) Downloaded:125750.51MB (125.75051 GB) Total Usage:164072.42MB (164.07242 GB)
06/2008 (27 days) Uploaded:33920.81MB (33.92081 GB) Downloaded:102945.62MB (102.94562 GB) Total Usage:136866.43MB (136.86643 GB)
This was a shaped customer? Both periods combined, both shaped? ie for 10/2008 => 191-(54+48) = 89 GB over?? (+ non counted uploads, of course)
http://www.saferoz.com.au
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austdata
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by austdata » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:23 am

davidotas wrote:I have to say I think this is rubbish. I thought the whole point of shaping is so we CAN'T take advantage or "abuse the system"??
Gezz mate, are you completely thick or what!?!? If your happy to pay for these pricks to suck your bandwidth dry then fine, but for gods sake don't ask the rest of us to pay for your philanthropy! Sod off!

Perhaps Exetel should create a special Leachers and Idiots set of plans. Than davidotas and co could be switched to them and help subsidies all the leachers.
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

austdata
Posts: 629
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by austdata » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:27 am

PM wrote:What the HELL does that person download. Is there enough time to watch, read , listen to or WHATEVER with all that data?
NO ISP would want that sort of client!
They have probably set up their computer as a P2P client/server and pouring out and in thousands of dodgy games, videos and songs.

Perhaps their details could be accidentally leaked to the ACMCA or whatever it's called. :mrgreen:

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

jokiin
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Location: Sydney

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by jokiin » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:34 am

ForumAdmin wrote:For those people who queried why it was necessary to implement the changes announced yesterday this is the type of user who no ISP, as far as I'm aware, can afford to have as a customer:

Service Number: 035672nnnn
Network N-K Status: Exetel VIC N-K
Service Plan Name: TELP - 8192/384 - $95.00 - 54000 (MB)

11/2008 (4 days) Uploaded:2879.41MB (2.87941 GB) Downloaded:27950.06MB (27.95006 GB) Total Usage:30829.47MB (30.82947 GB)
10/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:56933.09MB (56.93309 GB) Downloaded:191616.60MB (191.6166 GB) Total Usage:248549.69MB (248.54969 GB)
09/2008 (30 days) Uploaded:44105.78MB (44.10578 GB) Downloaded:118292.25MB (118.29225 GB) Total Usage:162398.03MB (162.39803 GB)
08/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:43782.54MB (43.78254 GB) Downloaded:124546.40MB (124.5464 GB) Total Usage:168328.94MB (168.32894 GB)
07/2008 (31 days) Uploaded:38321.91MB (38.32191 GB) Downloaded:125750.51MB (125.75051 GB) Total Usage:164072.42MB (164.07242 GB)
06/2008 (27 days) Uploaded:33920.81MB (33.92081 GB) Downloaded:102945.62MB (102.94562 GB) Total Usage:136866.43MB (136.86643 GB)
I'm guessing this is the same type of user that goes straight to Whirlpool and starts threads about how they were treated unfairly and asked to leave even though they pay all their bills on time and never call up for support and get encouraged by other like minded individuals to go running off to the TIO about how unfair Exetel is :wink:

peterh_oz
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:13 pm
Location: Melbourne Australia
Contact:

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by peterh_oz » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:07 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:For the people who observed that "shaping doesn't work" - there is an anomaly in that the bandwidth restrictions are placed only on the 'expensive' international links from Optus and Verizon.

This has an apparently strange effect of meaning that P2P and common files that are sourced from:

1) Other Exetel users
2) PeerApp cache
3) Akamai cache
4) PIPE
5) WAIX

aren't constrained at all and, because of the efficiency of the caching devices, can sometimes actually 'speed up' rather than be 'slowed down' using the shaping option.
Why doesn't exetel shape all traffic instead? I know Bigpond does, so it is possible. Wouldn't this be a more effective way of doing it?

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
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Location: Sydney

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:22 pm

peterh_oz wrote:
Why doesn't exetel shape all traffic instead? I know Bigpond does, so it is possible. Wouldn't this be a more effective way of doing it?
Yes it would. However, as has been said previously, we are currently in the process of changing the topology of the network from, effectively, everything being routed through the Sydney PoP to almost everything being routed to and from each individual PoP.

This was done to improve latency for locally sourced data and to provide greater redundancy to the whole network.

Once all of the changes have been completed and all the required equipment installed (planned for mid 2009) it will be possible to more tightly control 'shaping' or whatever we do in the future.

raymond
Exetel Staff
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:46 pm

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by raymond » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:40 pm

Sample of three shaping screens:
a) At limit of the peak plan or 48 gb off peak you get screen A
http://blocked.exetel.com.au/usage1.php

b) After 1 gb of additional downloads you get the first warning – and can unblock and
http://blocked.exetel.com.au/usage2.php

c) After 2 gb you get the second warning you can unblock and be charged $6.00 per gb
http://blocked.exetel.com.au/usage3.php

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