Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Discussions regarding new & existing plans and other Exetel initiatives
hsvboy11
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:31 am
Location: Vic

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by hsvboy11 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:08 pm

i like the idea, if your downloading more than what your monthly quota is, so you should pay for the extra. im currently on the 12gig and use around 10gig of that a month. because exetel are one of the cheapest providers i've come across im quite happy to go with their 12gig plan and use 8-10gig rather than pay the same money and receive only 8gig of data per month :)

i also think its perfectly fair as everyone would also notice that exetel lifted their limits and didnt change the pricing.

ottyacat
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Mornington, VIC

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by ottyacat » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:43 pm

I agree as well. A few of the people i have signed up only churned after they knew the shaping option was available. I believe to date none of them have ever gone over their limit even 1mb but just knowing its there seems to "help" some people make the churn.

If your going to go way over your limit then you need to pay for it. Simple.

Good work Exetel, keeping it fair for everyone.

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:58 pm

hsvboy11 wrote:i cannot believe how STUPID some people are.
I can. It is one of my axioms in life: "People are idiots"...

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by ForumAdmin » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:46 pm

maddanno wrote:
1)Why not just scrap the shaping altogether and go back to the way it was. Then every body pays their share for what they use over the limits.

2)What about making users paying double after having suffered through 2GB of slow shaped speeds. That sounds pretty detrimental to me.

3) If you can justify why these users need to pay double the GB for their usage after the shaped period why not put the rate to $6GB for everybody as this will not only increase your profits but also limit the "abuse" more effectively.
1) The 'shaping' option provides genuine users with the comfort of not getting additional charges when they go over their included quotas by mistake.

2) If you don't select 'shaping' you pay $3.00 per gb - the absolute lowest from any ISP since Exetel introduced it in April 2004.

3) Exetel isn't in business to "increase profits" and never has been - we are in busines to provide the lowest possible cost services - we act more like a co-operative than a 'traditional' commercial business in that respect - different to EVERY other ISP. We have never changed the $3.00 for excess usage since it was introduced. The $6.00 is to deter the pseudo smartarses who are so cheap they will always try and scam any system.

codywilson
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:56 pm
Location: Hobart

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by codywilson » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:45 pm

Any chance that the abuse page could be password protected ie username and password and pop up every month. Then no one can complain about unfairly getting charged and it would nullify any argument the bill payer wasn't informed. (teenagers hackers etc can't keep downloading...

echang01
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:50 pm

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by echang01 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:35 pm

can i make a suggestion...


After your allocated download limit..........

Shape to 64k for the next 2gb

After the next 2gb

Shape to 28.8k

Surely, the 28.8k?
What's Open 24hours in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, all over Australia?
www.whatsopen.com.au

James
Exetel Staff
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:27 pm

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by James » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:53 pm

echang01 wrote:can i make a suggestion...


After your allocated download limit..........

Shape to 64k for the next 2gb

After the next 2gb

Shape to 28.8k

Surely, the 28.8k?
Did you read the whole thread?

echang01
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:50 pm

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by echang01 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:04 pm

yeah i did
and i know that Exetel are doing this to deter people from downloading heaps,
but i'm just suggesting an option that would allow others to NOT incur a charge.

One example of this case would be a relative of mine, she has a homestay, and she's not aware of the internet usage, and she just uses it. The homestay decides that he'll go download heaps, goes over the quota.... will my aunt have to pay half of those additional costs? very hard to manage i suppose
What's Open 24hours in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, all over Australia?
www.whatsopen.com.au

James
Exetel Staff
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:27 pm

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by James » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:05 pm

echang01 wrote:yeah i did
and i know that Exetel are doing this to deter people from downloading heaps,
but i'm just suggesting an option that would allow others to NOT incur a charge.

One example of this case would be a relative of mine, she has a homestay, and she's not aware of the internet usage, and she just uses it. The homestay decides that he'll go download heaps, goes over the quota.... will my aunt have to pay half of those additional costs? very hard to manage i suppose
You obviously didn't, please refer to this post by Forumadmin on page 2.





Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Postby ForumAdmin on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:07 am
For the people who observed that "shaping doesn't work" - there is an anomaly in that the bandwidth restrictions are placed only on the 'expensive' international links from Optus and Verizon.

This has an apparently strange effect of meaning that P2P and common files that are sourced from:

1) Other Exetel users
2) PeerApp cache
3) Akamai cache
4) PIPE
5) WAIX

aren't constrained at all and, because of the efficiency of the caching devices, can sometimes actually 'speed up' rather than be 'slowed down' using the shaping option.

trev12
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:45 pm
Location: geelong

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by trev12 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:09 pm

i like the idea but have 2 concerns, 1 and it happen to me last month what happens if u ask for shaped and u are not 3 times i called to ask why i was getting full speed as i should be shape. 2 what happens say if u go over your off peak limit but still have plenty of peak limit left is exetel going to unshaped u every day ?

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:11 pm

trev12 wrote:i like the idea but have 2 concerns, 1 and it happen to me last month what happens if u ask for shaped and u are not 3 times i called to ask why i was getting full speed as i should be shape. 2 what happens say if u go over your off peak limit but still have plenty of peak limit left is exetel going to unshaped u every day ?
By the sound of it, it is 2Gb from the moment you click "accept" on the blocked page. Also, the peak and off-peak are independently metered and independently shaped. So yes: you get unshaped every 12 hours if your have not exceeded one of your peak or off-peak quota.

Cocka
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:48 pm
Location: Chain Valley Bay, N.S.W. OZ

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by Cocka » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:37 pm

I'm a bit confused re the get out of gaol option email that was sent out re shaping etc., does this apply back to when the shaping was originally introduced or just to the adjustments the other day, a bit ambiguous.
I once thought I made a mistake but I was wrong ?

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by CoreyPlover » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:39 pm

Cocka wrote:I'm a bit confused re the get out of gaol option email that was sent out re shaping etc., does this apply back to when the shaping was originally introduced or just to the adjustments the other day, a bit ambiguous.
The intention would be that early termination fees may be waived if you joined while the old shaping option was available.
  • Those that joined before shaping was ever introduced can't "get out of jail" because the excess option is still available for them and this was the only option available for them at the commencement of their contract. Therefore their contractual obligations are unchanged.
  • Those that joined in the last few days since the new shaping policy has been introduced can't "get out of jail" because clearly they are accepting the new arrangements

Cocka
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:48 pm
Location: Chain Valley Bay, N.S.W. OZ

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by Cocka » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:52 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
Cocka wrote:I'm a bit confused re the get out of gaol option email that was sent out re shaping etc., does this apply back to when the shaping was originally introduced or just to the adjustments the other day, a bit ambiguous.
The intention would be that early termination fees may be waived if you joined while the old shaping option was available.
  • Those that joined before shaping was ever introduced can't "get out of jail" because the excess option is still available for them and this was the only option available for them at the commencement of their contract. Therefore their contractual obligations are unchanged.
  • Those that joined in the last few days since the new shaping policy has been introduced can't "get out of jail" because clearly they are accepting the new arrangements
Thanks for that Corey, very helpful as you always are/were.
I once thought I made a mistake but I was wrong ?

tycannah
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:16 pm

Re: Modification To 'Shaping' Option

Post by tycannah » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:43 pm

I want to give Exetel some kudos for trying something new in introducing the shaping option a while ago. They certainly try and improve the system on a continual basis and having been with them for over 4 years I am the last person who wants to see them fail financially. Exetel are the closest thing we have to the ISP competitors in the U.S.A market for bang for buck. The forum admins admission that they stuffed up the implementation and that it cost them money is to be applauded. I now know the truth and have a better perspective on the issue.
Exetel should however also understand how customers feel and the reason why the comments in this forum have been made so negatively. Its all about customer expectations and promises that are not kept. If a business is going to promise shaping and it doesn't happen then its "abuse" is not the fault of the customer. It assumes that the customer is continually monitoring his usage when he expects a safety net to do that. I hope that the blocks that you have put into place work for ALL users as I would hate to have a huge bill because one of the 5 users in my family failed to monitor the situation.
I also recall a time when I would receive warning emails when I was approaching my limits. I dont receive these anymore. Is there a reason for that and can these be reimplemented.?
I want to encourage Exetel to keep trying new things for users especially when they get burnt occasionally for not understanding their processes. We dont improve without learning from our failures. Also, kindly suggest that Admin should take a long holiday, your comments concerning your work ethic are clear evidence of personal burn-out which is not good for rational decision making or communications.

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