Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Discussions regarding new & existing plans and other Exetel initiatives
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aiki
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:28 am
Location: sydney

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by aiki » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:55 pm

I wasn't meaning to suggest something "Ludicrous" it was like anybody else's valid suggestion.
neb wrote:So, if you have 45% stay at 12-12 and 55% move to 2-2, the normal peak users are still going to be affected by bandwith hogs past the entry of their peak up until the leachers pool enters peak at 2pm. so splitting it would be ludicrous unless you are going to duplicate your network, and no ISP is going to do that, it's also a nightmare to split what you have now to suite, I know, we tried it where I was back in 2005, and the test lasted IIRC no more than 3 weeks it was so hopelessly unworkable.

bullseye
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:09 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by bullseye » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:21 pm

Suits me well - I sometimes find myself rushing to beat the 12pm switch on weekends.

ozkidzez91
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 11:27 am
Location: Helidon, Qld

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by ozkidzez91 » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:55 pm

Just checking, when daylight savings activates in summer, will this affect Queensland users? Will our peak time remain the same?

EDIT: Sorry, I meant will the daylight savings time in other states move the on-peak/off-peak time of Queensland users?

vk3xem
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:45 pm
Location: HEALESVILLE
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Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by vk3xem » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:34 pm

ozkidzez91 wrote:Just checking, when daylight savings activates in summer, will this affect Queensland users? Will our peak time remain the same?

EDIT: Sorry, I meant will the daylight savings time in other states move the on-peak/off-peak time of Queensland users?
Yes, it always has! The times are based on Sydney.
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
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Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by CoreyPlover » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:35 pm

neb wrote:Actually that wouldnt work, unless you are going to duplicate the network and have two completely separate pools of customers and bandwith... peak usage times are so there is little to no interruption or affect on normal everyday uses (this excludes p2p).

So, if you have 45% stay at 12-12 and 55% move to 2-2, the normal peak users are still going to be affected by bandwith hogs past the entry of their peak up until the leachers pool enters peak at 2pm. so splitting it would be ludicrous unless you are going to duplicate your network, and no ISP is going to do that, it's also a nightmare to split what you have now to suite, I know, we tried it where I was back in 2005, and the test lasted IIRC no more than 3 weeks it was so hopelessly unworkable.
Well, ForumAdmin noted in his recent post (http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p242015) that:
ForumAdmin wrote:I can tell you, that based on the feedback we have received to date there will be no moving of the current 12 hour start time in the near future - we may offer an option to those users who wish to avail themselves of it to have a choice of start times but it wil be an option not a general requirement.
The idea is that user choice moves from a hard, pre- and post- midnight surge in activity to stepped surges of activity. i.e. instead of a massive spike in bandwidth utilisation right on midnight, continuing but declining over the course of, say, 2-3 hours you get smaller spikes at midnight, 1am and 2am, which combined with the natural declines over 2-3 hours gives a much more sustained level of bandwidth utilisation, and hopefully, a much more usable experience for late night gamers and browsers

Also, it is not about duplicating the network, it is about compartmentalising the pools of users into IP address ranges and setting up systems to track usage. The NetEnforcer and other traffic management systems are operating 24 hours a day anyway (it is just that thresholds are not breached requiring the activation of such systems until off-peak periods)

Steve009
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:12 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by Steve009 » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:48 pm

Our household supports the idea of moving the off-peak period to 2am-2pm.
Thumbs up!

aiki
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:28 am
Location: sydney

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by aiki » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:05 pm

That's what I meant in my original post, to let the user decide his 12 hour start and finish times. Same 12hour block same quota, but without thousands of users jumping out of the starting gate on midnight. What does "peak" mean anyway it's obviously a different time for different people. Somebody's peak could be 2pm to 2 am or 4am to 4pm. What difference does it make?
I'd be interested to know.
And by the way please read what I've written, thank you.

neb
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:26 am

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by neb » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:00 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
neb wrote:Actually that wouldnt work, unless you are going to duplicate the network and have two completely separate pools of customers and bandwith... peak usage times are so there is little to no interruption or affect on normal everyday uses (this excludes p2p).

So, if you have 45% stay at 12-12 and 55% move to 2-2, the normal peak users are still going to be affected by bandwith hogs past the entry of their peak up until the leachers pool enters peak at 2pm. so splitting it would be ludicrous unless you are going to duplicate your network, and no ISP is going to do that, it's also a nightmare to split what you have now to suite, I know, we tried it where I was back in 2005, and the test lasted IIRC no more than 3 weeks it was so hopelessly unworkable.
Well, ForumAdmin noted in his recent post (http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p242015) that:
ForumAdmin wrote:I can tell you, that based on the feedback we have received to date there will be no moving of the current 12 hour start time in the near future - we may offer an option to those users who wish to avail themselves of it to have a choice of start times but it wil be an option not a general requirement.
The idea is that user choice moves from a hard, pre- and post- midnight surge in activity to stepped surges of activity. i.e. instead of a massive spike in bandwidth utilisation right on midnight, continuing but declining over the course of, say, 2-3 hours you get smaller spikes at midnight, 1am and 2am, which combined with the natural declines over 2-3 hours gives a much more sustained level of bandwidth utilisation, and hopefully, a much more usable experience for late night gamers and browsers

Also, it is not about duplicating the network, it is about compartmentalising the pools of users into IP address ranges and setting up systems to track usage. The NetEnforcer and other traffic management systems are operating 24 hours a day anyway (it is just that thresholds are not breached requiring the activation of such systems until off-peak periods)
I worded some of that badly, what I meant was duplicate the network, OR divide the pools of existing, which we found within 3 weeks failed miserably, because we were forever taking from one to add to the other, which had negative affects for many users in both pools, traffic management equipment was used, but that sort of stuff is never perfect it only assists. For example for the first few hours of the business day browsing if often blocky and jerky at times, come midday, its never like that, its like its hosted on hte LAN, so Net Enforcers although overall worth every cent of there massive costs, they cant be relied upon as the overall answer
as they are still not perfect, it was only 12 months ago those things decided text newsgroups were P2P files :D

neb
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:26 am

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by neb » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:06 pm

aiki wrote:That's what I meant in my original post, to let the user decide his 12 hour start and finish times. Same 12hour block same quota, but without thousands of users jumping out of the starting gate on midnight. What does "peak" mean anyway it's obviously a different time for different people. Somebody's peak could be 2pm to 2 am or 4am to 4pm. What difference does it make?
I'd be interested to know.
And by the way please read what I've written, thank you.
I read what you said, and peak means, optimum performance for web/mail/voip etc etc etc, it means layer 7 shaping on p2p so most users not downloading illegal movies etc, have super fast experiences, where as off-peak means, "go for broke, but we QoS some things like voip/steaming media still etc", so think about what you are wanting, if, as Corey pointed out they use different bandwith pools for the two groups it may work, but i doubt it for reasons I mentioned above (high maintenance), but if not, going for broke users WILL have a detrimental affect on those who should be having a decent net experience.

Anyway it seems we disagree and will have to agree to disagree :)

billmack
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Location: Parkes NSW

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by billmack » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:08 pm

:lol: I think it's a great idea. Go for it! :lol:

aiki
Posts: 23
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Location: sydney

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by aiki » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:50 pm

Some people might think "Peak" means peak usage times, without all the complex jargon.
I'm not an expert but I would say that peak times are what you are told they are by your ISP......no?

Why can't we nominate our own peak usage time?
Seems fair to me.

Anyone else?

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by ForumAdmin » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:46 pm

aiki wrote:
Why can't we nominate our own peak usage time?


Anyone else?
Simple - you don't run the process that provides the abilities

Dimal
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:39 pm
Location: Warwick QLD, Australia.

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by Dimal » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:49 pm

G'day All,

This would really suit me due to the very unusual work hours I keep. The data flow slug at the current changeover time at midnight hits me right in the middle of my peak usage period and causes enormous frustration as a result. Go for it Exetel...

Mal.

gerry908
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:22 pm
Location: Wyoming NSW

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by gerry908 » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:41 pm

I have no objection to the new peak times

quill3033
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:19 am
Location: port stephens

Re: Possible Change To Off Peak Period

Post by quill3033 » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:11 pm

no, doesnt work for me. i like to start downloads at midnight and go to bed. if i had to start at 2am it would mean waking up in the middle of the night to do it.

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