Content Filtering Trial

Discussions regarding new & existing plans and other Exetel initiatives
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tin
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:22 pm
Location: Northwest NSW
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Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by tin » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:35 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:We'll end the trial concluding that yet another filtering system doesn't work like all the rest we've looked at.
Excellent... This statement gives me hope ;-)
But I just hope the limited test list doesn't "prove" that it works. I'd hate for anyone to read the results, see 0 false positives with no speed decrease and assume that the system is flawless and infinately scalable.

NetworkAdmin wrote:The NetClean reporting page shows the volume of hits and traffic, and it should be possible to make reasonable extrapolations from there.
Is this something that can/will be released during the testing? I mean sort of like the network traffic stats Exetel already provide... Anonymous numbers. Or is that something that is too hard to set up for a short trial?

ForumAdmin wrote:If it was an illicit site it would almost certainly have been deliberately blocked so there would be no need.
Who's deciding what's "illicit" as far as the trial goes? If a site not listed by ACMA happens to show up as blocked, will it be unblocked quickly regardless of content?

freyja wrote:Perhaps Mr Conroy will take note of any results and millions of tax dollars may be saved :wink:
I doubt it. So far he's ignored thousands of letters & hundreds of industry experts. Personally I think the money should be directed into education and home level parental controls. I know some of it is going into education, but the filtering money should be going into home level hardware based solutions (much harder to bypass than a program you can uninstall).


I'd also like to voice my curiousness about what protocols are covered and what happens if non-standard traffic hits the port.
I'm also wondering if inbound traffic will be passed through the filter rules... If I'm hosting websites on my home server, are they potentially filterable (as far as this trial)?
The above post is copyright, may be edited at any time, and should not be taken internally. Any breach of these terms may result in legal action or a sore tummy.

stubbers
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:49 pm
Location: Wangaratta

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by stubbers » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:40 pm

ackh4x wrote:This trial is a significant risk for users privacy and security. ALL users internet traffic will be explicitly intercepted by a non-Australian national organization (watchdog NZ). NZ is covered by different privacy and security regulations which may not conform to Aussie standards. Watchdog will be able to monitor and log every piece of Internet traffic users send. This information may be used for whatever purposes Watchdog and Exetel wish including providing it to third parties or government agencies. Is there any way for user's to not participate in the trial? If the trial is extended or Exetel wish to continue to utilize a proxied service I will be changing my ISP even if it means breaking my contract! very disappointed that users were not consulted prior to trial! I will be turning off my Exetel connection tonight...
Perhaps you should take off the tin foil hat and take a look around.

Firstly, not ALL traffic will pass through the filters, just traffic that matches a small number of IP's.

Watchdog will not be able to monitor and log every piece of Internet traffic users send, they will be unable to monitor HTTPS and other secured transactions and as stated above they only intercept packets that are going to selected IPs.

Exetel is not using a proxied service, as stated this system doesn't use a conventional proxy to avoid the issues related to requests coming from one IP.

Calm down... Read the announcement... And possibly do some research before unnecessarily getting so worked up.

Cheers,
Stubbers

jeffy83
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by jeffy83 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:49 pm

Hi Guys,

Has this content filtering gone live as of 28/04? Because since about 1am this morning (28/04) my line speed plummeted something shocking. Doing your speed tests I get a line speed of 1mbps, as before that I got a line speed of over 10mbps.

Also my pings to exetel's servers have jumped from 30-40~ms to now well over +400ms.

I have someone from customer support with a ticket checking the transmission between you and me, but could this be a content filtering issue?

Rgds

Jeff

lesso
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:11 pm
Location: N.S.W.
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Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by lesso » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:52 pm

would i be correct in assumimg should i come across a site that is blocked i simply have to log into a vpn say in america and visit the site from that machine thereby bypassing the filter entirely? as the information sent via vpn will not contain any url information and thus it wouldn't be passed to your random filter box? just a guess but i would assume that would be the easiest way around it :evil:

just a thought if the filter passes outgoing traffic to the filter couldn't you run a tracert discover the ip of the hop to the filter box then launch a distributed denial of service attack (ddos for short)? which could prove dire to any isp's using that server for their filter? not that i enjoy prision however im sure someone out there might think its a good idea
Last edited by lesso on Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Lesso
http://ausdesign.net

austdata
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by austdata » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:01 pm

jeffy83 wrote:Has this content filtering gone live as of 28/04? Because since about 1am this morning (28/04) my line speed plummeted something shocking.

Also my pings to exetel's servers have jumped from 30-40~ms to now well over +400ms.
No, the system wasn't turned on this morning. I think it is due to be turned on about now, 8:00PM.
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

Delboy
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:54 pm

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by Delboy » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:05 pm

stubbers wrote:
Delboy wrote:wow I make a post about internet filtering happening in Communist China and my post is removed, forum filtering now. I guess you have to be careful what you say.

Ironic
Yes you do... If it doesn't help the discussion, which your post didn't, then I praise Exetel removing it, it's just a shame they couldn't do it faster...
Stubbers, I am not wishing to upset anyone I just get worried when the perception of something that is seemingly a basic freedom like the internet is getting controlled.
I am all for keeping out the idiots and protecting the innocent but surely if you don't like the station you just change the channel, at least "YOU" should be able to have that choice not have the choice made for you.
Sorry if my comment offended anyone it was not my intent.

BigDaddyCool
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by BigDaddyCool » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:07 pm

Well I'd just like to say my internet is faster if not anything at the moment....... Thats really the only good thing about filtering, if used right you can block out alot of nonsense wasteful traffic not needed.

Image


** On another note I 100% do not consent to "being watched" with regards to what anyone browses via HTTP on the Internet in our household etc. People should be entitled to privacy, it's kinda like having someone "pre hacked into your computer" essentially and looking over your shoulder. I can already imagine the amount of people that are stupid enough to get bad spyware thru limewire etc, they'll have the cops knocking on the door over pornography etc because of the spyware that installed itself in the background.

I know it's a stupid statement but ultimately filtering leads to privacy invasion. But "on topic" ...... my speed has not been affected at present.
Last edited by BigDaddyCool on Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

austdata
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by austdata » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:09 pm

(1) I'm interested to know if this filtering process will impact on shared web hosting sites.
(2) Will it be able to filter FTP data transfers?
(3) Will changing port numbers affect the filtering.
(4) Is there any perceived affect on database transfers for websites that use different servers for MySQL?

Cheers,

Mike
The views I present here are not necessarily those from my brain.
Exetel's support number outside Sydney: 1300 788 141 NOTE: I do not work for Exetel.

Malster
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:02 pm

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by Malster » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:14 pm

Very interesting method of filtering. I can too see how it *should-not* affect user speed. The only bottleneck would be (if I have understood it correctly) the redirected and proxy'd pages that go via Watchdog.

It will be fine if it is blocked as the request and traffic ceases there, but if it is an allowed web site, on a suspect IP then the proxy traffic will be a bottle neck.

I hope watchdog have sufficient and diverse (in case of up stream link drops/flaps ) bandwidth to cope, but hopefully that particular traffic level will be low.

Maldark
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:01 am
Location: Newcastle, NSW

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by Maldark » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:15 pm

I'll be interested in knowing when/if this filtering starts working, is there anychance of a link to a blocked page for testing sake, or perhaps adding a new blank page to your own site and then blocking it?

Hope the testing goes smoothly.

ianr
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:14 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by ianr » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:18 pm

Not sure if the filter has started yet, but my speed is down a notch compared to usual. I download 90% of my stuff from the one site and normally get 16mbs to 17mbs (yep, very good!) At the moment I'm getting 13mbs to 14mbs - but I don't know if that is the trial, but it is a bit unusual. It could be the remote server though, I'll do it a few times over the next few days..

Ian

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:26 pm

jeffy83 wrote:Hi Guys,

Has this content filtering gone live as of 28/04? Because since about 1am this morning (28/04) my line speed plummeted something shocking. Doing your speed tests I get a line speed of 1mbps, as before that I got a line speed of over 10mbps.

Also my pings to exetel's servers have jumped from 30-40~ms to now well over +400ms.

I have someone from customer support with a ticket checking the transmission between you and me, but could this be a content filtering issue?

Rgds

Jeff
It couldn't be.

We will not be starting the trial until tomorrow now.

davekempe
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:19 pm

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by davekempe » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:27 pm

You are naive to think that exetel doesn't already have the ability to watch what you are visiting. They are your ISP, so naturally, all your traffic passes through them, so by extension, they have the ability to view that traffic, analyse it, log it, do whatever. I'm not saying they actually do, but don't be outraged at a change in capability, where none exists. It wouldn't be hard for anyone who had admin rights on the servers/routers/switches that make up the exetel core to monitor your traffic. Same goes for any other ISP. Whether they could be bothered, or whether you care is the issue. If you can't trust your ISP to at least be unconcerned with whatever you are doing, then get a different one. If you are paranoid or are doing something you don't want anyone to see, then take appropriate techincal measures - plenty exist.

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:31 pm

BigDaddyCool wrote: But "on topic" ...... my speed has not been affected at present.
...no filtering will start until tomorrow - and it's a TRIAL of a technology.

generally:

All this fuss about some hardware testing is truly ridiculous.

We do it all the time and have done for over five years - testing the capabilities of new hardware and software we are interestd in - no-one ever notices.

All Network operators do it.

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:34 pm

jeffy83 wrote:Hi Guys,

Has this content filtering gone live as of 28/04? Because since about 1am this morning (28/04) my line speed plummeted something shocking. Doing your speed tests I get a line speed of 1mbps, as before that I got a line speed of over 10mbps.

Also my pings to exetel's servers have jumped from 30-40~ms to now well over +400ms.

I have someone from customer support with a ticket checking the transmission between you and me, but could this be a content filtering issue?

Rgds

Jeff
No - it hasn't started yet and won't until tomorrow.

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