Content Filtering Trial

Discussions regarding new & existing plans and other Exetel initiatives
Locked
cubic
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:19 am
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by cubic » Fri May 01, 2009 9:24 am

vk3xem wrote:My guess is that seeing there are only 200 entries in the filter that these entries aren't part of any black list they are more than likely random entries with no real filter list. Therefore it they aren't really filtering any banned sites for the test!!!
As I understand it that's not the case. It's a real blacklist of real urls containing (we can only assume) content relating to real child abuse. To me this is the biggest problem with the trial - the list is secret (rightly so), small and contains no popular websites like youtube - ie. it's just not representative of what the government is likely to try to impose if they get their way.
...the term 'Future Perfect' has been abandoned since it was discovered not to be - Douglas Adams

VK
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 10:38 pm

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by VK » Fri May 01, 2009 9:52 am

cubic wrote:... To me this is the biggest problem with the trial - the list is secret (rightly so), small and contains no popular websites ...
I think I can help with that.

I created 2 small pages:

http://home.exetel.com.au/vk/good.html
http://home.exetel.com.au/vk/evil.html

I would like to ask NetworkAdmin to add the second page to the black list so we can do a bit of testing.

NetworkAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by NetworkAdmin » Fri May 01, 2009 9:58 am

VK wrote:
cubic wrote:... To me this is the biggest problem with the trial - the list is secret (rightly so), small and contains no popular websites ...
I think I can help with that.

I created 2 small pages:

http://home.exetel.com.au/vk/good.html
http://home.exetel.com.au/vk/evil.html

I would like to ask NetworkAdmin to add the second page to the black list so we can do a bit of testing.
1. It is on the Exetel network, and wouldn't make it to the filter server

2. We don't have access to manipulate the filter list.

Maz
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:30 pm
Location: Taringa, Brisbane

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by Maz » Fri May 01, 2009 7:57 pm

I'm noticing team fortress 2 pings of 90 - 250ms. with any luck this is a result of filtering and i can play games again when its finished.
All i can say is that this is a particularly annoying time to be testing this sort of crap (long weekend in QLD).
Let me know if this is somehow unrelated to the filtering and I'll just find a faster service.
Maz

Gidget
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 1820
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:33 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by Gidget » Fri May 01, 2009 8:26 pm

Maz wrote:I'm noticing team fortress 2 pings of 90 - 250ms. with any luck this is a result of filtering and i can play games again when its finished.
All i can say is that this is a particularly annoying time to be testing this sort of crap (long weekend in QLD).
Let me know if this is somehow unrelated to the filtering and I'll just find a faster service.
Maz
I looks like Network Admin's post on page 11 needs to be repeated on every page :roll:

Unless you SPECIFICALLY see the filter block page when, AND ONLY WHEN, trying to access a web site, the filter trial CAN NOT POSSIBLY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY PROBLEM YOU SEE.

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

christianinqld
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:15 pm
Location: brisbane

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by christianinqld » Fri May 01, 2009 9:04 pm

One of my house mates claimed that the internet had been slow for "the last few days, almost a week". I hadn't told any of them about the trial, as its a much better way to get a real result (no placebo effect).
Whether this has anything to do with the trial I don't know, but this is the first time speed issue's have been mentioned with the connection since we got it (almost 6 months).

Hope this information is helpful in some way.

Gidget - are you saying that net traffic is not affected unless its blocked? i thought that was the purpose of the trial. Or are you saying that as games only request IP once (at connection to the server) after that it dosent run through the test server?

Gidget
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 1820
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:33 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by Gidget » Fri May 01, 2009 9:35 pm

christianinqld wrote:Gidget - are you saying that net traffic is not affected unless its blocked? i thought that was the purpose of the trial. Or are you saying that as games only request IP once (at connection to the server) after that it dosent run through the test server?
I think you'll need to wait for Network Admin to answer that one - it's beyond my ken.

Gidget
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

cubic
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:19 am
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by cubic » Fri May 01, 2009 9:58 pm

You can very simply test whether a particular IP address might be affected using traceroute - see this thread. With only 200 or so IP addresses on the list the chances are slim to zero.
...the term 'Future Perfect' has been abandoned since it was discovered not to be - Douglas Adams

NetworkAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by NetworkAdmin » Sat May 02, 2009 12:43 am

christianinqld wrote:One of my house mates claimed that the internet had been slow for "the last few days, almost a week". I hadn't told any of them about the trial, as its a much better way to get a real result (no placebo effect).
Whether this has anything to do with the trial I don't know, but this is the first time speed issue's have been mentioned with the connection since we got it (almost 6 months).

Hope this information is helpful in some way.

Gidget - are you saying that net traffic is not affected unless its blocked? i thought that was the purpose of the trial. Or are you saying that as games only request IP once (at connection to the server) after that it dosent run through the test server?
It has nothing to do with the trial. Use traceroute to determine that for yourself and read the many, many other posts that explain what is and isn't affected.

kgl61
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Ruse, NSW

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by kgl61 » Sat May 02, 2009 7:25 am

I do not know if it is coincidence but following a period of great instability i have had a new moden on for a week with no problems. On Thursday night we had intermittent to no connectivity at all. On Friday my daugter complained of having problems while on facebook.

NetworkAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by NetworkAdmin » Sat May 02, 2009 10:08 am

kgl61 wrote:I do not know if it is coincidence but following a period of great instability i have had a new moden on for a week with no problems. On Thursday night we had intermittent to no connectivity at all. On Friday my daugter complained of having problems while on facebook.

It has nothing to do with the trial. Use traceroute to determine that for yourself and read the many, many other posts that explain what is and isn't affected.

marting
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:22 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by marting » Sat May 02, 2009 11:19 am

I experience significantly low speeds recently. I used to be on an average of 8Mbps and now very often I get only 1.5. Could it be because of the filter?

NetworkAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by NetworkAdmin » Sat May 02, 2009 11:29 am

marting wrote:I experience significantly low speeds recently. I used to be on an average of 8Mbps and now very often I get only 1.5. Could it be because of the filter?

It has nothing to do with the trial. Use traceroute to determine that for yourself and read the many, many other posts that explain what is and isn't affected.

Peter@Watchdog
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:46 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by Peter@Watchdog » Sat May 02, 2009 5:05 pm

ndm wrote:
Peter@Watchdog wrote:Watchdog (NetClean Vendor) Comments. - This is a theoretical problem, as in practice list management organisations do not as a rule add URLs from high traffic sites such as Youtube, Akamai or Picasa. We certainly do not recommend this. These sites have takedown policies for illegal content which should always be the first course of action.
It's a question being raised because while it doesn't effect this trial or other similar implementations for real, our government wants to be stricter than the policies of the likes of youtube.

Even when backtracking from using the very broad scope ACMA list as is, there is one Youtube URL on the Australian blacklist today that has been refused classification (not illegal) by the Classificaitons Board. There is also at least one film on youtube that has been refused classification when the DVD was submitted for classification. If you look at similar youtube clips to those absolutely in the Australian govt blocking scope it could potentially effect hundreds to thousands of Youtube URLs.

That's their revised starting point after critisism. It was going to be the ACMA list, despite the government recently saying that it was never going to be the ACMA list (it's even in their policy documents, so I'm not sure why they are saying they were never going to do that)

Our government may soon push this issue well beyond theoretical.
We can also set the Whitebox up with a whitelist for commonly accessed URLs such as Youtube, and should they get added to the blacklist list either purposefully or inadvertently then the traffic would not route through the filter as the routes would not be advertised for these sites. This addresses the potential risk of a large amount of routed traffic overloading the filter connection. I cannot comment on the content of the list as there have been no final policies set about this as yet and it is my understanding this is one of the issues that the filtering trials are investigating.

donkeykong
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: melb

Re: Content Filtering Trial

Post by donkeykong » Sat May 02, 2009 6:06 pm

I've noticed a slight drop in speed over the last few days, I don't really use the internet much during the week but this weekend i've noticed pages seem to take longer to connect, the actual downloading of content on the page is the same though.

Locked