Change To Usage Measurement Times

Discussions regarding new & existing plans and other Exetel initiatives
ozkidzez91
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 11:27 am
Location: Helidon, Qld

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by ozkidzez91 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:58 pm

Queenslander here.

I think the change is a positive thing. We don't have daylight savings time crap here, and I don't enjoy having to change my habits every summer due to another state's decision to use daylight savings.

I welcome the change.

Oh, and btw, Queensland is on AEST (GMT+10). NSW, Victoria are on AEDST (GMT+10-11).

rahul
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:35 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by rahul » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:17 pm

Hello everyone,

Although I may have one post, i have been regularly reading this forum, until today i came accross this thread and i could not resist from making a comment to all those WA (plus some others) customers. I dont understand why should WA customers assume off-peak should start 10pm when it is clearly off peak is ment for traffic during times of when there arn't many users online i.e. after midnight. WA customers should be grateful that they have been getting the 10pm benefit. I dont see why it shouldn't be the same timings for everyone. Equal opportunity rule should be applied here like any other place.

Well done Exetel.

gravy
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:25 pm
Location: South West

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by gravy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:39 pm

Register one more vote for a WA disappointed with this change please. Not that we seem to get a vote even though 'popular demand' is being used as the excuse to do this.

Personally I don't remember any discussion where the option was put on the table that Exetel would make a compulsory switch our off peak hours to be two hours later...

And to those other states who can't stand to see the WA mob get good value - remember that when we signed up to Exetel we were offered different off-peak hours to all of you. We made our choice then based on those different hours.

I only joined the forums today to comment on this.

I don't mind an honest change but I feel like Exetel are 'gilding the lily' by trying to pass this change off as being a result of user requests.

They will make money out of me as a result of this change since I choose to pay excess usage charges and now I will have more on-peak usage.

Time to consider options since I am moving house anyway...

Nukem
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by Nukem » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:31 am

:x :x :x :x :x :!:

Perth Users are going to get ripped-off!!!!!

Because under the new arrangement we will get only 10hours of High-speed Peak download instead of 12hours. The reason is because after 10pm (Perth time) our download speed will drop sharply as it does now. (because people in the east start to download heavily)

Previously we were compensated by the off-peak period starting at 10pm - not anymore.

If Exetel refuses to revert back to the previous plan - I'm going to another ISP!.

gracefall
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by gracefall » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:55 am

No for the change. Nukem, I certainly hope youre wrong about the 10hrs high speed peak usage. Caus if youre right, trying to watch youtube or get decent speeds just after 10pm WST would suck. Hopefully Exetel have allocated some bandwidth for western users to compensate for this.

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:25 am

Nukem wrote:Perth Users are going to get ripped-off!!!!!
!?
No. "Perth users are going to get the same experience as rest-of-Australia users (or at least VIC and NSW). How is this not the fairest and most equitable arrangement?
Nukem wrote:Because under the new arrangement we will get only 10hours of High-speed Peak download instead of 12hours. The reason is because after 10pm (Perth time) our download speed will drop sharply as it does now. (because people in the east start to download heavily)
Flawed logic. Download speeds drop when quota kicks over from peak to off-peak. When this 10am time is shifted to 12am the download speed trough will also shift.
Nukem wrote:If Exetel refuses to revert back to the previous plan - I'm going to another ISP!.
Oh well...

CoreyPlover
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Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:34 am

It is very interesting (and somewhat concerning) to witness the animosity to this proposal. For two reasons:
  • The surge of "against" posts. Even allowing for the fact that many people would not have been aware of the prior discussions you would think that the *proportion* of for/against should remain similar when comparing the prior discussions to this current thread.
  • This movement to local time metering is more in keeping with the principles of equity between users and intention of peak/off-peak distinction. From the perspective of the Vic and NSW users, they were being penalised because they had to wait 2 hours later compared to Perth users to access off-peak quota at night.
So instead of saying "things are now worse off for me" I challenge any Perth user to rebut the statement that local metered times are a fairer system.

jubadub
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:00 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by jubadub » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:16 am

CoreyPlover wrote:... So instead of saying "things are now worse off for me" I challenge any Perth user to rebut the statement that local metered times are a fairer system.
Of course it is fairer to give everyone the "lowest common denominator" of service. But you wouldn't dream of say slowing down ADSL2 users to ADSL1 speeds just to be fair now would you?! So why would you so greatly reduce your service to a whole state of users for no better reason!? I can't imagine anyone in the east was complaining that WA was getting a better deal because of WA's more favourable time zoning or network loading. In fact it probably never even occurred to them. So you really have no need to solve a problem of perceived "unfairness" because there wasn't one.

But I tell you what, it sure makes a big difference to WA users. I regarded this early off-peak start time as one of the most outstanding reasons for going with Exetel that no other ISP in WA could match. Why would you get rid of such a great selling point for no other reason except to provide lowest common denominator for some sort of useless "equity" amongst users when no inequity was even noticed.

Now if I had seen any talk of there actually being a problem with WA's peak approaching limits because of our generous 10pm off-peak start time (9pm in summertime!), well that would be a perfectly good reason to take steps to overcome the problem. But to ruin a great service to a state full of people for no good reason - that just doesn't seem like something that Exetel's would do!
CoreyPlover wrote: From the perspective of the Vic and NSW users, they were being penalised because they had to wait 2 hours later ...
They have to be "penalised" because there are too many people trying to make use of a limited resource at the same time and it is simply not possible to provide the service. This is like use of the roads during peak hour - when the situation becomes a significant problem then some sort of penalty (or benefit) needs to be applied to persuade those who can, to choose a different time of day to use the limited resource.

If Perth users are lucky because they temporarily have better network capacity per user, or can naturally access it in a less congested time period, then it really doesn't make sense to apply a "penalty" to persuade them to change from habits which are not producing a problem does it!

So are there any real reasons for WA users to have to take such a big hit in the service they are accustomed to and have appreciated for so long?

Ditman1
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:52 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by Ditman1 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:57 am

Just to throw another question into the ring !

Does the billing period change as currently our billing finished midnight AEST will it now finish AWST if it doesent we will loose 2 hours currently that Eastern states users will have at the end of the month ????? :(

CoreyPlover
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Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:54 am

jubadub wrote:But you wouldn't dream of say slowing down ADSL2 users to ADSL1 speeds just to be fair now would you?! So why would you so greatly reduce your service to a whole state of users for no better reason!?
That is not a counterexample to fairness. ADSL1 and ADSL2+ are different products. WA, Vic, NSW ADSL are the same product and should therefore be provided on the same basis
jubadub wrote:I can't imagine anyone in the east was complaining that WA was getting a better deal because of WA's more favourable time zoning or network loading. In fact it probably never even occurred to them. So you really have no need to solve a problem of perceived "unfairness" because there wasn't one.
Just because something may not have been noticed before, doesn't mean it should not be corrected once it is noticed.
jubadub wrote:If Perth users are lucky because they temporarily have better network capacity per user, or can naturally access it in a less congested time period, then it really doesn't make sense to apply a "penalty" to persuade them to change from habits which are not producing a problem does it!
This is actually a fairly good rebuttal. I am unaware of the current network condition in WA vs, say, NSW but again I would state that the fairest way to deal with this is to retain local time off-peak but address the bandwidth provisioning of WA and NSW accordingly.
Ditman1 wrote:Does the billing period change as currently our billing finished midnight AEST will it now finish AWST if it doesent we will loose 2 hours currently that Eastern states users will have at the end of the month ?????
Quite true and another good, if not relatively minor, point of rebuttal. It shouldn't matter significantly though as I'm sure you can catch up 2 lost hours over the next 372 hours that are contained within the July off-peak period.

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
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Location: Sydney

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by ForumAdmin » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:33 am

Nukem wrote::x :x :x :x :x :!:


1) Because under the new arrangement we will get only 10hours of High-speed Peak download instead of 12hours. The reason is because after 10pm (Perth time) our download speed will drop sharply as it does now. (because people in the east start to download heavily)


2) If Exetel refuses to revert back to the previous plan - I'm going to another ISP!.
1) WA users use different and dedicated IP feeds which aren't used by NSW (or any other State's users) users so it can't possibly make any difference.

2) Good bye.

toast
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:52 pm

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by toast » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:18 pm

jubadub wrote: Now if I had seen any talk of there actually being a problem with WA's peak approaching limits because of our generous 10pm off-peak start time (9pm in summertime!)
Was not this the greatest part of being in WA with Exetel's service. It was, until the drongo politicians thought that WA needed another vote for daylight savings. I'm a yes person, but I know WA resists change. But now that I've slept on it, I think if WA users think about it a bit more they'll find there are benefits to the change. Please rebut the benefits below :)

I suspect the main driver for this change has been Exetel implementing a 'choose your peak/off-peak time.' This gives Exetel the fringe benefit of being able to move WA users to midnight off-peak start. Previously the reason why it wasn't done because it would require some coding effort and network engineering time spent. Now that time has been spent to allow for dynamic off-peak time start, why not move WA users.

A benefit is by spreading the 12 hour off-peak time to 14 hour off-peak window, all users will benefit from faster speeds. If only considering WA and NSW in the example, the NSW people will have less congestion in their first two hours therefore more speed. The WA people will have virtually NO congestion (small user base?) in the last two hours of their off-peak peroid, therefore more speed.

If you live in WA, you can move your off-peak to 2am-2pm AWST and then have your last 4 hours with little congestion. It also means on the weekend (because everyone works during the week :P) you can download up to 2pm in your off-peak quota. How much does that rock! Previously I would have to wake up at like 8am if I wanted to quickly get something before 10am cut off.

Benefits all round everybody.

btm
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:26 am

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by btm » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:17 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:One of the most common suggestions made by Exetel customers who don’t live in Victoria and NSW has been to move away from using Eastern Standard Time and Eastern Summer Time for calculating peak and off peak download usage.
in an earlier post i asked for numbers of "Exetel customers who don’t live in Victoria and NSW" to move away from the then existing arrangement (presumably now changed) because i can't imagine why anyone would want it changed. i am yet to get a response from exetel. i'm interested in what the business drivers are for the change. if none or insignificant then it's a shame to change for the sake of change. looks like a lot of wa customers are upset over the change. optional rather than mandatory would have been more palatable.

TheStig
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by TheStig » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:43 pm

Changed my mind - on thinking I actually like the change to local time metering- thanks

vk3xem
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Re: Change To Usage Measurement Times

Post by vk3xem » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:06 pm

btm wrote:looks like a lot of wa customers are upset over the change. optional rather than mandatory would have been more palatable.
My understanding is that this change in part was to help spread the load over the network because of the P2P leaches that all turn on at the stroke of midnight. If this change helps that problem then I would say get over it!
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM

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