Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Discussions regarding new & existing plans and other Exetel initiatives
Locked
aiki
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:28 am
Location: sydney

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by aiki » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:55 pm

As far as good Exetel citizens are concerned what about viewing it from our side.
I personally don't use much of my allowances but do like the flexibility of the two time frames and "average" my use out between the two.
The loss of the two hours will affect me because I will runover into peak time more easily and the 6gb is not a huge amount.
So why aren't we who don't cause a drain on the system at any time of day classified as good citizens.
As I said in my earlier post I was happy to be involved in previous discussions obout off peak useage and was one of the ones who advocated for user adjustment of off peak times. I thought at the time that this issue was resolved and was happy in the knowledge that according to the email I received from Exetel I could change at any month in the future.
Unfortunately there weren't to be many months in the future before it is now changed again.
I am happy with my service but would like it if the 12 hour offpeak was maintained or if that's not possible perhaps a small increase in peak download instead.

PM
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Hobart

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by PM » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:03 pm

Schuby wrote:"Why move from 2am-2pm to 2am-12pm at all?"
There are a small percentage of users that have the approach of using up as much of their peak and off peak quota as they can, because they believe (wrongly) that it is their right to do so.
Two hour less off peak (1200-1400) will reduce bandwidth usage (data) and maybe slow those few heavy users down a little. Sure it will inpact on those of us who only use around 40% of our quota. I believe this used to be the average across all users. It is probably creeping up slowly? I believe the 40% is based on peak usage. I will be corrected if I'm wrong.

Exetel need to (must) try and reign in usage unless there is a major drop in the cost of buying the data, otherwise we will all be paying substantially more for our service. No ISP provides a service based on all users using 100% of their quota. If they did then even the current Telstra plan charges would start to look cheap. They also need to reduce usage at certain times so the service is usable (read: fast) for all of us. None of us want a congested service. Congestion is here, but the ISP's are trying to balance that congestion, which benefits all of us.

Let Exetel make changes THEY feel are necessary, even if it may be slightly inconvenient or "unfair" to some. Find a better service over-all and I'm sure Exetel will do their best to compete. I feel 100% certain that Exetel are honest and have their users interests at heart, as long as they can stay afloat and YES make a profit.

I'm beastly careless If I keep or loose the off peak between 1200-1400, even though I was trying to do the right think by Exetel and changed to off peak 0200-1400. Boo hoo if some feel hard done by. Move on. Life is too short!

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by ForumAdmin » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:16 pm

Yoshi667 wrote:all we want is our offpeak slot to be the same as everyone else.
Is that so wrong?
How about being happy that, at 10 hours, your 'off peak' is a longer time period than any other ISP in Australia.

Lbucci
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:34 am
Location: Ashmore, QLD

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by Lbucci » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:18 pm

I’m Confused. Could someone from exetel explain to me exactly how this has changed for me?
This is my 2nd month. Within the first month I changed to 2am to 2pm. I received an email saying my off peak as of my third month will be 2am to 12pm. Currently on 2am -2pm
In the forum people are saying that if you had 2am to 2 pm, you still have 12 hours; 2am -2pm. Others are saying that’s not so...
Could someone clarify the correct change that will affect me?

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by ForumAdmin » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:23 pm

Lbucci wrote:I’m Confused. Could someone from exetel explain to me exactly how this has changed for me?
This is my 2nd month. Within the first month I changed to 2am to 2pm. I received an email saying my off peak as of my third month will be 2am to 12pm. Currently on 2am -2pm
In the forum people are saying that if you had 2am to 2 pm, you still have 12 hours; 2am -2pm. Others are saying that’s not so...
Could someone clarify this for me?
If you changed your off peak download period to 1 am to 1 pm or 2 am to 2 pm before Friday July 17th then you retain your selected off peak period.

Lbucci
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:34 am
Location: Ashmore, QLD

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by Lbucci » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:26 pm

Yes, My change was effective first of July 2009
Thank you for your clarification

humanity
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: Dandenong

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by humanity » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:29 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
Yoshi667 wrote:all we want is our offpeak slot to be the same as everyone else.
Is that so wrong?
How about being happy that, at 10 hours, your 'off peak' is a longer time period than any other ISP in Australia.
How about Exetel doesn't punish its customers who failed to read Exetels mind. It doesn't matter what Exetels competitors are doing or what changes Exetel made in the past, the truth is Exetel are treating two groups of customers differently which is highly immoral and unethical.

Yoshi667
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: Woolgoolga

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by Yoshi667 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:35 pm

PM wrote:
Schuby wrote:"Why move from 2am-2pm to 2am-12pm at all?"
There are a small percentage of users that have the approach of using up as much of their peak and off peak quota as they can, because they believe (wrongly) that it is their right to do so.
Two hour less off peak (1200-1400) will reduce bandwidth usage (data) and maybe slow those few heavy users down a little. Sure it will inpact on those of us who only use around 40% of our quota. I believe this used to be the average across all users. It is probably creeping up slowly? I believe the 40% is based on peak usage. I will be corrected if I'm wrong.

Exetel need to (must) try and reign in usage unless there is a major drop in the cost of buying the data, otherwise we will all be paying substantially more for our service. No ISP provides a service based on all users using 100% of their quota. If they did then even the current Telstra plan charges would start to look cheap.

Let Exetel make changes THEY feel are necessary, even if it may be slightly inconvenient or "unfair" to some. Find a better service over-all and I'm sure Exetel will do their best to compete. I feel 100% certain that Exetel are honest and have their users interests at heart, as long as they can stay afloat and YES make a profit.

I'm beastly careless If I keep or loose the off peak between 1200-1400, even though I was trying to do the right think by Exetel and changed to off peak 0200-1400. Boo hoo if some feel hard done by. Move on. Life is too short!
But that is not what they are saying...
Who's to say the people that don't use their full amount won't start downloading more and making the most out of it either out of spite or simply a change in their needs? Or in fear of that in another month it will all change again and we may only get a 4hr offpeak so they need to make the most of it.

Why would a company give the freedom to use as much as we get and use it as a major selling point without banking on the worst case scenario that we will indeed use it all? It would be a mini version of the global financial crisis when everyone tried to withdraw their money out of the bank at the same time. I believe casinos are required to have enough money for a worst case scenario that everybody wins, do ISPs not have enough bandwidth to accommodate the amount they are giving to all their users?
I don't use my full amount of offpeak, barely any at all unless it is necessary, but I do use alot of peak quota, which this change will affect.

Yoshi667
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: Woolgoolga

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by Yoshi667 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:44 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
Yoshi667 wrote:all we want is our offpeak slot to be the same as everyone else.
Is that so wrong?
How about being happy that, at 10 hours, your 'off peak' is a longer time period than any other ISP in Australia.
Good dodge, you still haven't answered any of my very valid questions.
I am happy that I am getting better hours than any other ISP but that doesn't change the fact that I am also unhappy that every other ISP treats their customers as equal.
Now that I have answered your question could you possibly answer mine? Just to give me the same courtesy, you know treat me as an equal.

So here we go, now you are going to say "if you don't like it you can look elsewhere" and I am going to say "I shouldn't have to look elsewhere to be treated as an equal customer, it should be part of your business to treat everyone as an equal otherwise it could be classified as discrimination (which could be taken to the department of fair trading) or just simply bad business practice, I pay the same I should receive the same, my money is not worth less than anybody elses and neither am I, I expect the same service as anybody else on here"

PM
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Hobart

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by PM » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:45 pm

Yoshi667 wrote:Who's to say the people that don't use their full amount won't start downloading more and making the most out of it either out of spite or simply a change in their needs?
Why would a company give the freedom to use as much as we get and use it as a major selling point without banking on the worst case scenario that we will indeed use it all? It would be a mini version of the global financial crisis when everyone tried to withdraw their money out of the bank at the same time. I believe casinos are required to have enough money for a worst case scenario that everybody wins, do ISPs not have enough bandwidth to accommodate the amount they are giving to all their users?
I don't use my full amount of offpeak, barely any at all unless it is necessary, but I do use alot of peak quota, which this change will affect.

Human nature is fairly predictible. You can fairly safely make predictions based on it. Similar to you I use most of my 12GB peak some months, but use very little off peak. Maybe a few GB's. I can change as necessary.

Yoshi667
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: Woolgoolga

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by Yoshi667 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:06 pm

PM wrote:
Yoshi667 wrote:Who's to say the people that don't use their full amount won't start downloading more and making the most out of it either out of spite or simply a change in their needs?
Why would a company give the freedom to use as much as we get and use it as a major selling point without banking on the worst case scenario that we will indeed use it all? It would be a mini version of the global financial crisis when everyone tried to withdraw their money out of the bank at the same time. I believe casinos are required to have enough money for a worst case scenario that everybody wins, do ISPs not have enough bandwidth to accommodate the amount they are giving to all their users?
I don't use my full amount of offpeak, barely any at all unless it is necessary, but I do use alot of peak quota, which this change will affect.

Human nature is fairly predictible. You can fairly safely make predictions based on it. Similar to you I use most of my 12GB peak some months, but use very little off peak. Maybe a few GB's. I can change as necessary.
You are completely right, others can change as necessary too, but people may feel the necessary change is to go from using the average of 20GBs per month offpeak to the full 60GBs per month due to the fact they may need to save their peak hours or make the most of offpeak, would that not be more detrimental than simply giving people the extra 2hrs they want?

hbfix2
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:12 pm

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by hbfix2 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:33 pm

Why not simply introduce a fair use policy which requires users who run autodownloaders to limit the start time of said autodownloaders to 2pm or later, and deal with transgressions by restricting speed during offpeak for those who don't comply. It has been stated that a small percentage of users are responsible for this problem, why not target them instead of annoying a large number of non offending users?

Yes, it would require additional administration, but only for a short time, I suggest.

Please note that the tone of my posts has remained within the bounds of civility.

paulb
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:38 pm

Re: Catastrophe In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by paulb » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:53 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
paulb wrote:
But what is this mysterious effect at midday? Is it manual or automatic?
It is automatic download schedulers ending downloads.
I'm not so sure about that, but have had a further look at the graphs to muse on exactly what these "automatic download schedulers" are. Whatever they are, they are at least as active at the end of the off-peak period at noon as at the beginning as the size of the step is the same although it has a half hour "tail" indicating that the "granularity" of the transfers is of that order - the amount of data that can be downloaded at whatever speed they are using, in half an hour.

Now this is a rather specific form of download - it suggests that the download must be proceeding over the whole of the off-peak period - or at least evenly spread over that period. If it is arranged be shut down at the end of the period, then it must be resumed at the start of the next period, which implies that it is something proceeding day after day. At my 512k download speed, if I used all of my "off-peak" time every day, I would generally exceed my allocation and at any higher speed, this would quite certainly happen. And quite frankly, I cannot imagine from what source I would get that much (useful) data (except by crudely backing up my entire work database to home - in which case I would not wish to be doing this during daylight hours anyway!).

The only sort of "automatic download" that might plausibly behave in a manner consistent with these observations, would appear to be a torrent, intermittently downloading and uploading material as requests arrive but cautiously not using the whole bandwidth available to the connection, and at a lower rate exchanging "chunks" up to half an hour long.

The other aspect of this situation is that the outgoing traffic is consistently close to half of the incoming traffic. Handshaking generally involves (hopefully much) less than a tenth of traffic, so this amount of outgoing traffic can only be accounted for as Web serving, VoIP (including Skype and video) and - torrents. Unless there are some really determined gamers out there :!: Of particular interest is that outgoing traffic peaks just before the noon "switch-off" before matching that precipitous drop.

My hypothesis is that most of the off-peak "surge" - at each end of the period - must be torrents restricted by a scheduler, and the midday surge corresponds to activation of torrent clients in the North American evening just as is evidenced in our 15:30 (school's out!) "ramp up" in activity.

If this is the case, might Exetel be quite reasonably concerned that extending "off-peak" generally out to 14:00 would project the midday surge to new heights?

MeOnMine
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by MeOnMine » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:57 pm

Hey Exetel you guys have opened another can of worms I see.
This is the 3rd Tsunami you have put through your body of clientele in as many months.
I speak from experience when I warn you of consequence.
Good will is difficult to muster but so easy to lose.

People of this thread please listen to me.
Exetel have only done one thing wrong, and that is that they should have just told us in the beginning that off peak is now 02:00 – 14:00 across the board. Everyone, you included. Me, as well.
Exetel tried to give us free speech to allow us the privilege of input to assist in running the business and making us all happy. This has turned around and bitten them on the bum.
The only argument that we as customers have is the imbalance of some people remaining with 12 hours of off peak and the others being disvalued and now acquiring 10 hours off peak.

People have some faith.
Exetel did not state that there will be a consequence to us if we do not change to the later time schedule or if the proposed system did not work. They gave us the “option.” Hypothetically, in a court of law Exetel would not last 10 minutes trying to prove that some of us are more worthy than others with respect to our decision.
We all have different contracts but we all pay our premiums we are all equal to Exetel.
In the start of the new week Exetel management will get together and with advice change this situation.
It is wrong and they will come to the same understanding.
It goes against the “fair trading act” and Exetel have always been more than fair.


Forum Administrator.

Sir, I am in my late 40’s I am in my 4th business.
I continue to work 12 hour days 7 days a week.
I have lost my wife my kids and this big house only echo’s at me.

It is life that goes by you, while you are busy working!

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Change In Off Peak/Peak Times

Post by CoreyPlover » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:01 pm

Yoshi667 wrote:Good dodge, you still haven't answered any of my very valid questions.
In answer to "why isn't everyone treated equal", it is the same concept as Exetel's "loyalty discount". Those people who joined with Exetel 5 years ago when they went through very difficult expansion and development are rewarded with a discount on their monthly fees. Similarly, those people who volunteered to shift off-peak times are also rewarded. Regardless of whether you knew shifting to 2am would help or not, the fact is that it did. And Exetel are willing to reward users for this regardless of those users' motivations. Besides which, this "reward" is probably minor enough for other users not to be concerned with any second order repercussions.

Off topic, but as an actuary I'd like to say that companies that hold reserves for an "absolutely worst case scenario" do not perform very well as the entirety of their capital would be locked away and unable to be used beneficially. The correct requirement enforced by regulatory bodies is to reserve for a "maximum likely adverse event".

Locked