VOIP ringing delay

VOIP setup and troubleshooting
somer
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:25 pm
Location: Lismore

VOIP ringing delay

Post by somer » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:24 pm

We have just replaced our old modem with a NetComm NF1ADV Wireless N300 VoIP Modem Router.
we have noticed that the voip lines take far too long to start ringing - eg if someone calls us, the PSTN line phone starts to ring 3 full rings before the VOIP line phones ring, likewise they continue to ring 3 rings after the PSTN phone stops.
this means we can pick up the phone (VOIP lines) that is still ringing but the caller has already disconnected - this is the ONLY reason we have the PSTN phone still connected, so we can actually tell a call is coming in and hopefully get to the VOIP phone before it stops!

any suggestions on how to configure the modem to stop or at least decrease this lag?
we bought this modem (the other one died) because it actually has an FSO port (seems like many VOIP modems don't) and we want to use the same phones for incoming and outgoing calls.

also anyone with experience using this particular modem?
or /and any QoS config instructions for this modem? AND how to see how long the modem has been up? we have ongoing line/drop off issues that are obviously not modem related (4th modem we have tested now and the same problems occur!!) and i am finding the interface difficult to fathom in places compared to other modems.

any suggestions for any of these issues gladly accepted

asankag
Exetel Staff
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by asankag » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:05 pm

Hi Somer,

I contacted netcomm regarding your issue with the delay and they suggest that you contact them directly as this could be caused by one of the settings. Netcomm's contact details are mentioned in the below link.

http://www.netcommwireless.com/contact-forms/support

We have checked our logs and can see that you connection is stable for over 5 days without any dropouts. However upon further inspection on your line, it shows that the downstream SNR is very low and we have asked our supplier to enable stability on your profile to mitigate this.

You reference no fro this incident is: 5417180

Regards,
Asanka
---
Regards,
Asanka | L2 - VoIP Engineer

somer
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:25 pm
Location: Lismore

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by somer » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:33 pm

thankyou,
i have lodged a ticket with netcomm as you have advised regarding the lag in ringing. hopefully it is just a setting i can change.

great to hear our line has been up for 5 days - so this modem is doing better than the NB16WV which we had for a couple of weeks before returning it (lack of FSO port meant it didn't meet our needs). that modem's gui had a great status page and the system log showed all of our dropouts which were very regular.
telstra worked on the line and since your techs did a reset on the line it has improved. we have been struggling to know where the problem has been as there appeared to be multiple problems. noisy, intermittent line, failing modem, changing a cable worked for awhile, a different modem, removal of devices, line reset etc etc until i wasn't sure what if anything was actually helping at all or it was just coincidence if it stayed up for a few days.
my latest desire in life is just to have a phone that works like it should and reliable internet! sounds simple but has eluded us for awhile!

asankag
Exetel Staff
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by asankag » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Hi Somer,

Do you have any updates regarding this? Are you still having dropouts from your end?

Regards,
Asanka
---
Regards,
Asanka | L2 - VoIP Engineer

somer
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:25 pm
Location: Lismore

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by somer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:03 am

hello and sorry for the delay with the answer.
yes it appears the dropout issue has been solved.
BUT i have had no luck talking to NETCOMM regarding the delay in ringing to our phones connected to the VOIP service. They either don't know or simply don't understand what i am asking them as their answers and things they have asked me to do are illogical.

i am wondering if we are doing something wrong with our setup despite the fact that we had the same setup with our NB9W
i would like to know if others operate with the same setup we have.

1. we have NEVER given out our VOIP number to anyone. all callers use the local telephone number we have had for many years supplied by Telstra. This has not been an issue as all calls simply rang through to the phones connected to the FSX ports on the modem once it was setup with the VOIP details.

2. we therefore receive and make all calls from these phones connected to the two FSX ports and the caller has no idea anything is different at our end. (we deliberately turned off caller ID so as not to confuse people with another phone number)

Unfortunately with this modem there seems to be 2 problems occurring:
1.a 3 ring delay before the phones connected to the FSX ports start to ring - this causes us to miss calls if we are not close to the phone.
2. when someone calls us from their landline we can hardly hear them at all (this doesn't occur when a mobile rings us). i usually have to ring them back so we can talk.

I have given up on Netcomm so am wondering if ANYONE has any suggestions, ideas on how to remedy this situation.
i have attached a very rough diagram of our setup hoping someone will see something enlightening!!
Attachments
nf1adv1 diagram.jpg
This is a rough diagram of the setup - please note the phone that is connected directly to the PSTN line (on the LHS) is only there temporarily while we are trying to sort out our problems, it shouldn't be necessary.
nf1adv1 diagram.jpg (28.58 KiB) Viewed 4475 times

anurangaf
Exetel Staff
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:35 am
Location: Australia

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by anurangaf » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:23 pm

somer wrote:hello and sorry for the delay with the answer.
yes it appears the dropout issue has been solved.
BUT i have had no luck talking to NETCOMM regarding the delay in ringing to our phones connected to the VOIP service. They either don't know or simply don't understand what i am asking them as their answers and things they have asked me to do are illogical.

i am wondering if we are doing something wrong with our setup despite the fact that we had the same setup with our NB9W
i would like to know if others operate with the same setup we have.

1. we have NEVER given out our VOIP number to anyone. all callers use the local telephone number we have had for many years supplied by Telstra. This has not been an issue as all calls simply rang through to the phones connected to the FSX ports on the modem once it was setup with the VOIP details.

2. we therefore receive and make all calls from these phones connected to the two FSX ports and the caller has no idea anything is different at our end. (we deliberately turned off caller ID so as not to confuse people with another phone number)

Unfortunately with this modem there seems to be 2 problems occurring:
1.a 3 ring delay before the phones connected to the FSX ports start to ring - this causes us to miss calls if we are not close to the phone.
2. when someone calls us from their landline we can hardly hear them at all (this doesn't occur when a mobile rings us). i usually have to ring them back so we can talk.

I have given up on Netcomm so am wondering if ANYONE has any suggestions, ideas on how to remedy this situation.
i have attached a very rough diagram of our setup hoping someone will see something enlightening!!

Hi somer,

We have escalated your issue to our level 2 engineers under the ticket ID:5542941, and they will reply back with the relevant information.

Dazzled
Volunteer Site Admin
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Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by Dazzled » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:58 pm

There's a delay of a few rings on Dynalinks also. I don't have one of your modems, but I have just gone through both an older Netcomm and a Dynalink on their telnet interfaces, to see what voice-related settings can be found in the operating system (Montavista Linux ??). There are over 50, but none relate to PSTN pass through. I suspect the switch-over time is hardware determined, rather than by any operation of the internal software processor.

somer
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:25 pm
Location: Lismore

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by somer » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:31 am

thanks for replies.
regarding the delay you have also dazzled - we had this on an earlier netcomm router too but a firmware upgrade reduced it to an acceptable delay of one ring or less only.
we have tried the latest firmware upgrade for this new modem to no effect. 3 rings is quite a long time if you are up the back of the yard!!

have you come across the lack of volume problem we are having when receiving calls via landlines? would any of those settings deal with this one do you think? i can't seen the logic of incoming calls from mobiles being clear and with normal volume but any calls in on landlines being too quiet for comfort. sometimes we can almost not hear the caller at all, other times it is just acceptable if no other background noise and i sit still to listen!

are we simply asking the modem to do something it is not really designed to do well - ie using our pstn number? the netcomm staff couldn't seem to understand why we are even doing this.
do others do this or do you all give out your voip number? or use different phones for incoming and outgoing calls. both of these are obviously do-able but impractical in my opinion.

Dazzled
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Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by Dazzled » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:02 am

Dynalinks seem to be about 1 ring (double bell tone) behind, at call and at hang up. I had another look for PSTN pass through volume settings and couldn't find anything. I've used earlier Netcomms and haven't noticed any significant volume differences between calls, although VoIP to VoIP is certainly clearer than PSTN and mobile to PSTN calls can be garbled a bit (depending on where the caller is).

Few people know my VoIP number, so most calls come in on PSTN. The people that ring the VoIP number are usually using Exetel VoIP themselves. The only VoIP to VoIP that's not completely satisfactory here are those from some family members stuck on congested rural ADSL1 exchanges, where transmission speeds can drop alarmingly.

Dazzled
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Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by Dazzled » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:24 pm

I've just had a look at the specs for your unit. It might be that PSTN calls pass through the internal logic, so have you tried the different settings for "Incoming PSTN routing" (auto and line switches) and tried altering "Ingress gain" - meant for VoIP, but it may affect PSTN? You can get some unsatisfactory effects with volume if you run two handsets in parallel on a call. What has me beaten though is mobile sources being better on PSTN than standard phones.

lodperera
Exetel Staff
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by lodperera » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:28 pm

somer wrote:
have you come across the lack of volume problem we are having when receiving calls via landlines? would any of those settings deal with this one do you think? i can't seen the logic of incoming calls from mobiles being clear and with normal volume but any calls in on landlines being too quiet for comfort. sometimes we can almost not hear the caller at all, other times it is just acceptable if no other background noise and i sit still to listen!

are we simply asking the modem to do something it is not really designed to do well - ie using our pstn number? the netcomm staff couldn't seem to understand why we are even doing this.
do others do this or do you all give out your voip number? or use different phones for incoming and outgoing calls. both of these are obviously do-able but impractical in my opinion.

Quick suggestion

Try your service on a softphone like X-lite 5 and see if the same issues persist. Let us know so if there is something we could fix from our end then we could move forward with a checklist.

somer
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:25 pm
Location: Lismore

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by somer » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:31 pm

thanks for suggestions. will experiment and let you know. might take me awhile to try out different ingress settings - changed to 1 (looks like going below 0 will decrease volume from the bit i read in the manual. i also set the incoming pstn routing to one line only. the next phone call we received after that change was impossible to hear (may or may not have had anything to do with changes!)
i have now changed only one thing at a time so i know what is helping or not helping - ie set one phone ingress to 2 and another to 4 and put back the incoming pstn routing to auto as it was previously. i really have no idea what i am doing with this ingress. this is all i can find in the manual:

Adjusting Call Quality with the Ingress/Egress Gain Settings
If your call quality is poor with heavy echo and lag times try setting the Ingress Gain value to less than 0. With less ingress the sound volume will be lower but should reduce line echo. The optimum quality to try to attain is clarity of audio signal both incoming and outgoing, with good call volume and little perceived echo or distortion. However the values to use will vary and are dependent on network bandwidth, associated hardware and software codecs used.
 Carry out test call trials starting with both the Ingress and Egress Gain set to about –10. Values of -1 to -11 should provide a clear audio stream with low echo and distortion.
 Continue to lower the value one setting at a time, using increments of two or three.
 Make test calls until the echo is moderated.

obviously i have gone the other way! as in positive number but looks to me like reducing it will reduce our volume even further. and we haven't noticed call echo, just lack of volume!

regarding xlite - i will test that when i can - need to have a bit more time and have another computer on etc (my laptop has broken headset sound/recording!!). have downloaded but might take me a bit longer to test that one.

Dazzled
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Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by Dazzled » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:15 pm

You can get annoying echo on VoIP calls caused by the slight latency and the gain settings, and this will be why the Netcomm unit has these settings. They are used to control this problem. It wouldn't hurt to ask someone you call if they do hear an echo.

What I think is happening though is that PSTN calls are being converted to VoIP internally and then fed to the handset and the volume is being attenuated en-route by some kind of gain mismatch. Why mobile callers via PSTN aren't quietened is puzzling, but it's more important to get ordinary phone calls fixed. I'm stabbing in the dark a bit (I'm not a VoIP designer), but it possible to influence the result by using G.711 only? Is the echo canceller or automatic gain control involved?

Softphones simply move the ATA function to your computer, and bypass the coding logic in the modem. They are useful to detect if the problem lies in the modem (which I think you have established).

somer
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:25 pm
Location: Lismore

Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by somer » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:17 pm

lodperera wrote:
Quick suggestion

Try your service on a softphone like X-lite 5 and see if the same issues persist. Let us know so if there is something we could fix from our end then we could move forward with a checklist.
x-lite 5 doesn't work as this is only testing VOIP, not the pass-through capability of the modem using our telstra number for incoming calls.
well at least i can't see how it can do that. have setup x-lite and can receive calls to VOIP number but not telstra number.

Dazzled
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Re: VOIP ringing delay

Post by Dazzled » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:23 pm

You won't receive a call on X-lite without port forwarding port 5060 UDP from the modem, and possibly without disabling modem VoiP as well (as some units intercept all incoming VoIP traffic). The modem firewall by default passes any attempt at VoIP ringing into the inbuilt ATA..

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