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Ditman1
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:52 pm
Location: Perth

Post by Ditman1 » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:00 am

Can I just clarify that all is reset at the beginning of the new month.

Also is this only in the off peak period and you are returned to full speed in the peak period.

Thanks

ForumAdmin
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:24 am

The top 100 downloaders in the 12 midnight to 12 noon period in November were slightly lower than in July but, essentially, were the same people - God knows what they do with all that data. It will be interesting to see how many go over 72 gb this month now that downloads are charged over 72 gb.

It will be even more interesting to see what happens when downloads above 48 gb are charged from February 1st 2008.

Are these downloads so 'necessary' when they cost $3 per gb?

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rmerrick
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: Auburn
Contact:

what do i download that put me in the orange group

Post by rmerrick » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:20 am

probably shouldnt say this but.... I use the net for time-shifting TV and movie watching.
Stargate Atlantis - Seven will show the series probably next year at a time when I forget, or am too tired to see.
Dr Who. Starts Christmas day. ABC will show it next year on saturday nights when I have to be "out".
It goes on.
Movies.
$3/gb is the same as hiring a dvd. But without the car running costs.
And the security system monitoring costs a gig a day.
So I was always happy to pay, but always disappointed that Exetel could not provide the service.
Now I am stuck at dial up speeds from some servers (ninemsn) and full speed from others..
Ray
RayM

Spanner_Man

Post by Spanner_Man » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:07 am

Well as i've posted previously, on first glance on any Exetel sign up form the assumption is that if you go over your allowance (both peak and off peak) is that you will be charged $3/GB without delving into the fine print, and honestly the amount of average end users that don't read fine print ... i won't go on.

No where on the initial plan information page informs the user browsing about being speed managed/throttled, so hence my above statement. (Eg here without toggling additional plan information)

Simple; If you go over your plan allowance and the off peak 48GB - get charged for it. If people want to download 24/7 god knows what then fine they can pay for it with their hip pocket nerve.

Now who is really going to complain about a mere $3/GB compared with other ISP's no shaped or shaping plans.
Here is a list
Tel$tra - $150/GB excess
Optus - $150/GB excess


NB. Seems alot of ISP's are offering shaped plans, but none of them come anywhere close to the amount of allowance to price ratio that Exetel offers. Most of them are around the 400MB range for 256/64, 3 - 5 GB for 512/128, 7 - 10GB for 1500/256 and around 15GB for 8mbit but for the same price that Exetel offers the same respective plans at the same price but at close to double, sometimes triple the download allowance.

Spanner_Man

Re: what do i download that put me in the orange group

Post by Spanner_Man » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:17 am

rmerrick wrote:Movies.
$3/gb is the same as hiring a dvd. But without the car running costs.
Wrong - Thats illegal.

There is no provider out there that will (to my knowledge) supply a DVD quality movie for free from them (For example Bigpond Movies) charge to be able to download the movie (excluding data transfer)

If the movie is released under creative commons, or under GPL, or the actual author of the movie has clearly given the rights for anyone to download the movie in question then you can freely download it without facing copyright law infringement.

rmerrick
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: Auburn
Contact:

so what is the difference...

Post by rmerrick » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:19 pm

Hi Spanner_man.
Time to ask questions about the grey areas of the laws relating to copyright. Where do we stand in Australia?..

Facts.
1. Everywhere, in every retail electrical shop I can buy a dvd/tape/hard disk recorder/player for the express purpose of recording tv programs for later viewing or archiving.
2. I will also guarantee that when the recorded content is played back the ads are skipped along with the channel promo's.
3. Those same shops have tv's showing some program or current release movie. If I want I can stay and watch the whole thing for free.
4. I can buy movies from Bigpond for $2 (plus download??).
5. I have a VCR for the express purpose of time shifting.

I believe the law simply takes a "blind eye" to these forms of blatent copyright infringement.

The www is just like walking past a shop with a tv running.
People post all sorts of movies to news servers etc.
Yup, they commit the crime of copyright infringement by uploading.
But me, I am just bassing by their back yard with my newsreader, and lo!, I can see their tv. I can stay and watch, save it, or walk away.
Am I a criminal because my eyes can see??

If the program is what I want to see then I may save it for a while until I have time to watch it. Time shifting.

So the question is..
How is a computer with internet, any different from a VCR or hard disk recorder?
And why should computer users be treated any different from every other person in Australia time shifting their favourite programs?

Of course, mass producing the downloaded content for sale, or just dumping on 10's or 100's of friends is just not "reasonable personal use".

What do you think? Is the argument reasonable? Would it stand up in a law court?

And as for Exetel's charges. I have always been happy to pay for use but no one else seems to have reasonable rates. Best I have found is $1/G.
$3 is ok if the plan includes enough. I hate hard limits and speed limits.

And as I said i have remote security monitoring running at a gig per 8 hr day (40G/month) so my allowance gets chewed up pretty quick.
Doesnt leave much for other stuff..

Such is life.

R
RayM

dogwomble
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:21 am

Re: so what is the difference...

Post by dogwomble » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:30 pm

rmerrick wrote: Facts.
1. Everywhere, in every retail electrical shop I can buy a dvd/tape/hard disk recorder/player for the express purpose of recording tv programs for later viewing or archiving.
INAL, but from what I understand of recent changes to copyright laws, using these devices to record TV shows etc. for personal use (ie. only for the viewing of members of your household in your own home) was made perfectly legal.
rmerrick wrote: 2. I will also guarantee that when the recorded content is played back the ads are skipped along with the channel promo's.
I know there was debate about this coming from the TV companies. I know one manufacturer removed the ability to do this in at least one of the models. I don't know what came of this after that though.

[qupte="rmerrick"]
3. Those same shops have tv's showing some program or current release movie. If I want I can stay and watch the whole thing for free.
[/quote]

From my experience of running a TAFE radio station a few years back, you'll probably find that these places pay a licensing fee to APRA (or another licensing agent) to be able to do this.
rmerrick wrote: 4. I can buy movies from Bigpond for $2 (plus download??).
If you're a BigPond BroadBand subscriber, it costs you nothing to download. If you're with another ISP, your ISP will charge you for the download as per the plan you are connected with.
rmerrick wrote: 5. I have a VCR for the express purpose of time shifting.
See point#1.

TrentG
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:12 pm
Location: Riverina, NSW

Re: so what is the difference...

Post by TrentG » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:45 pm

Adding more from this discussion!
rmerrick wrote: I believe the law simply takes a "blind eye" to these forms of blatent copyright infringement.

The www is just like walking past a shop with a tv running.
People post all sorts of movies to news servers etc.
Yup, they commit the crime of copyright infringement by uploading.
But me, I am just bassing by their back yard with my newsreader, and lo!, I can see their tv. I can stay and watch, save it, or walk away.
Am I a criminal because my eyes can see??

If the program is what I want to see then I may save it for a while until I have time to watch it. Time shifting.

So the question is..
How is a computer with internet, any different from a VCR or hard disk recorder?
And why should computer users be treated any different from every other person in Australia time shifting their favourite programs?
This first question is very easy.....

A computer with internet is gaining a copy of copyrighted content off another person which is illegal. Using a VCR/DVD Recorder or Hard Disk recorder off a TV or Pay TV Network is legal for personal use or education use (depending upon your situations).

You are treated differently from a TV User because you are downloading content placed up there illegally, therefore your downloading of this content is illegal as well.
rmerrick wrote: Of course, mass producing the downloaded content for sale, or just dumping on 10's or 100's of friends is just not "reasonable personal use".

What do you think? Is the argument reasonable? Would it stand up in a law court?
What court would take that one on.....see above.
rmerrick wrote: And as for Exetel's charges. I have always been happy to pay for use but no one else seems to have reasonable rates. Best I have found is $1/G.
$3 is ok if the plan includes enough. I hate hard limits and speed limits.

And as I said i have remote security monitoring running at a gig per 8 hr day (40G/month) so my allowance gets chewed up pretty quick.
Doesnt leave much for other stuff..

Such is life.
People use VOIP and many other protocols on their Internet connection...they chew it up quick and they just have to get another plan with a higher download allowance if it keeps happening...
Image

CoreyPlover
Volunteer Site Admin
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Post by CoreyPlover » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:55 pm

Back on topic:

ForumAdmin has indicated that the goal of the newly introduced 48Gb->72Gb shaping + $3/Gb thereafter is to ultimately migrate to an off-peak arrangement which mirrors the peak arrangement: A hardcoded download limit (of 48Gb) and $3/Gb thereafter (see http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.ph ... =15#189005):
ForumAdmin wrote:Currently the situation is that we sent an email to every Exetel customer (to their nominated email address) advising them that downloads over 72 gb in the period 12 midnight to 12 noon will be charged at a rate of $3.00 per gb or part thereof from 1st November 2007.

We didn't implement that on 1st November (giving the heavy downloaders time to adjust their habits) but it will be implemented from 1st December 2007.

From February 1st 2008, maybe a month or so later, we will charge for downloads in the midnight to noon period that exceed the 48 gb allowance.

This, again, gives time for the heavy downloaders to adjust their habits.

As you know the 48 gb allowance is very, very generous and if people can't stay within that limit then they will either have to pay or find another service.
So this will solve much of the confusion that may be present on the sign-up pages. Best of all, it will move the entire system away from a fixed bandwidth allocation of orange pool users to a "user-pays" system which should mean a drastic curbing of the high-usage downloaders and consequential freeing up of bandwidth for other users (or alternatively, more profit for Exetel. A win-win situation). As we would all agree, 48Gb + peak allowance is more than enough to expect from any ISP (I know of only one other ISP, TPG, who offers higher download quotas). $3/Gb is also an incredibly fair price to pay for excess usage for those who need it.

rmerrick: What portion of that 1 Gb/day falls into peak and off-peak? Assuming 9 to 5 for 30 days per calendar month (could be less if only Mon-Fri) gives 11.25Gb off-peak / 18.75Gb peak. Still leaves you with 36.75Gb off-peak quota. I am very glad to hear that you are satisfied with the current $3/Gb though.

As you can see from the top 100 downloaders, there are some users that I suspect have no such legimate reason (like remote security monitoring) for their consistently high download usage. Some of these users have even had the gaul to voice their disapproval at their "slow speeds and obvious congestion due to Exetel's inadequate bandwidth provisioning" while simultaneously downloading 60Gb+ per month.

CordlezToaster
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:57 pm

Post by CordlezToaster » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:25 pm

ok i landed my self into the yellow pool. so is my speed shaped only during off peak period?

James
Exetel Staff
Posts: 1992
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:27 pm

Post by James » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:42 pm

CordlezToaster wrote:ok i landed my self into the yellow pool. so is my speed shaped only during off peak period?
only during off peak.

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