Change to AUP - Section (d)

Open discussion regarding technological or telecommunication issues
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skootn
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Location: perth

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by skootn » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:09 pm

tropt wrote: 3) In our house, all my family uses the internet connection we have with Exetel. Some to download movies, some play online games, some are studying and watch online training videos on a daily basis. We can work with a static hard limit. It's easy to manage and everyone in our house gets a percentage of the quota as their own.
ForumAdmin wrote: 3) With due respect - that statement is unbelievable.
Actually, I am in the same boat as tropt. Each member of my family has a laptop and a bandwidth monitoring app installed. My wife keeps track of her monthly usage, as do both my sons. This concept is, respectfully, quite believable.

After reading all the posts in this thread, and your reply to many of them, I have personally found your responses and attitude somewhat aggressive and demeaning. Many commenters here are simply confused by Exetels 'out of the blue' email that was sketchy on both detail and implementation.

Whilst you've been 'running' ISP's for over 6 years, you obviously haven't spent much time dealing with actual 'customers'. Yes, they can be annoying, but they also pay your wages sir. Not everyone is out to shoot you down, we would just like the information that was missing from the original email... which many posters in this thread have had to drag out of you.

I actually think the changes you are proposing will benefit the majority of users in this forum, myself and my family included. I only found this out, after reading this random little forum thread; Information that I would gladly have accepted as part of the original email correspondence.

Donskey
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Donskey » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:16 pm

ForumAdmin wrote:
In the mean time 'uncharged' doesn't mean 'unlimited' because if it did we would have used the word "unlimited" and not "uncharged"

So it is all semantics. I mean really. I signend up for the 30gig Peak and 60gig peak and I was happy with that. I was checking my usage and saw that the off peak was not charged so I wrote an email to support to clarify the changes to times and limits and they replied and oops!!!!! Guess what? They used the word limit and not the word charged and this comes from exetel support and I have copies of the emails. Below is one of the emails. I emailed them for confirmation before I began to download some stuff that I have been putting off because they are really big files. Why did they not tell me in this email that no limit does not mean no limit and I would have not downloaded so much this month. Whan more can one do. Below is one of the emails.


Dear Sir,

Thank you for your email.

I was able to locate 03XXXXXXXX however I could not find 03XXXXXXX on our records.

Plan details for service number 03XXXXXXXX are as follows;

Plan Type: TL-BA
Monthly Access Charge: $45.00
Peak Download Limit (M byte): 12000
Peak Period Option: 12:00pm - 12:00am
Excess Downloads per G byte: $3.00
Off-peak Download Limit (M byte): No Charge
Off-peak Excess Downloads per G byte: N/A
Service Line Speed: 1500/256
Service Activation Date: 2009-10-13
Contract Period: 6 Months
Initial Contract End Date: 2010-04-13

Your peak period on the above plan has been changed to 12:00pm - 12:00am and your off peak usage does not have a fixed limit as it is not counted.

Should you have any further queries please contact us.

Regards,

Davin R
Exetel Support Engineer

Exetel Pty Ltd

Now how do we interpret that. "Your usage does not have a fixed limit" Not have a fixed limit does not mean no limit it just means no charge
and if you decide to use what we have given you then we will deem you an unfair user. How dare you decide to download as much as you want when we
tell you you can. Amazing!!!

I can understand them sending a warning letter saying we think you are downloading too much and if you continue to download at these rates we will review
your contract, but to give you no limit then retrospect it to the 1st of November and at any opportunity say it you don't like it go to another provider. Wow.
I don't understand it.

TerryP
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Location: Geelong

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by TerryP » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:41 pm

ForumAdmin wrote: That figure, in excess of 5 gbps, is very, very large for the number of users we have and meets all demands of all people at all times including the very heavy down loaders.
I would like to question the veracity of that statement. From my experience (backed up by what I have read from many other Exetel customers) I believe that "meets all demands of all people at all times" is misleading in that it skirts around the truth.

Not everyone wants to download from dozens of sources at the same time. If I want to download from one source, with one connection, then during most of the off-peak period I am presented with speeds so slow as to make dial-up a comparable alternative.

So whether the 5gbps is large or not, it is not distributed equally amongst the customers. The creation of an uncharged off-peak period has only made that situation worse.

ForumAdmin
Exetel Staff
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:49 pm

Peleus wrote: ...I'm trying to understand and learn.
...but I am neither your teacher nor your parents and I have no interest nor responsibility for your education.

I might accept such interrogation from Exetel's board (though I doubt I actually would, but I am certainly not going to explain intricate details to anyone else.

While you, and others posting here, may regard your 'questions' as reasonable and polite someone like me may regard them as insulting and condescending.

Just a thought.

ForumAdmin
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:00 pm

TerryP wrote:
ForumAdmin wrote: That figure, in excess of 5 gbps, is very, very large for the number of users we have and meets all demands of all people at all times including the very heavy down loaders.
I would like to question the veracity of that statement. From my experience (backed up by what I have read from many other Exetel customers) I believe that "meets all demands of all people at all times" is misleading in that it skirts around the truth.

Not everyone wants to download from dozens of sources at the same time. If I want to download from one source, with one connection, then during most of the off-peak period I am presented with speeds so slow as to make dial-up a comparable alternative.

So whether the 5gbps is large or not, it is not distributed equally amongst the customers. The creation of an uncharged off-peak period has only made that situation worse.
It's interesting to know that a casual user knows such intimate details about our provisioning and operating. If the service doesn't suit you, or meet your requirements, then, as you know, you have a huge range of other sources.

I certainly wouldn't be paying for a broadband service that delivered a less than dial up speed service - or in fact anything other than a realistic broad band speed at all times.But then when I look at your service downloads for the past 15 days I see that you have downloaded almost 60 gbytes which somehow I think would be difficult to do on a dial up service.

Perhaps Exetel is not the ISP that can meet your needs and you should select one that does.

I would have to check the exact figure but I think this "less than dial up service" in off peak that Exetel is providing has allowed one 'customer' to download 276 gigabytes in the off peak period in the first 15 days this month and some 1,500 other customers to download between that figure and 60 gigabytes.

There are many issues that affect any individual user's ADSL performance, only one is under the control of Exetel. But that doesn't matter - the service being provided is clearly inadequate and you should not tolerate an ISP that is so incompetent it attempts to convince you that such a speed is acceptable in any way.

TerryP
Posts: 51
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Location: Geelong

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by TerryP » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:12 pm

ForumAdmin wrote: I would have to check the exact figure but I think this "less than dial up service" in off peak that Exetel is providing has allowed one 'customer' to download 276 gigabytes in the off peak period in the first 15 days this month and some 1,500 other customers to download between that figure and 60 gigabytes.

But that doesn't matter - the service being provided is clearly inadequate and you should not tolerate an ISP that is so incompetent it attempts to convince you that such a speed is acceptable in any way.
I know it is late at night after what has probably been a long day for you but I did not say "incompetent" and I did not say that downloading greater than 60 gigabytes was not achievable and I did not profess to know intimate details of your network other than from your own words here.

Could you please take my post seriously? To achieve decent download speeds during much of off-peak it is necessary to download from multiple, simultaneous sources. That may be okay for many people. What if I only want one source in one stream at a speed of at least say 100kB/s? Is it fair that I might get 20kB/s while other users open up 50 connections and get 1000kB/s and further congest the network?
Last edited by TerryP on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JasonM

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by JasonM » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:19 pm

TerryP wrote:Could you please take my post seriously? To achieve decent download speeds during much of off-peak it is necessary to download from multiple, simultaneous sources. What if I only want one source in one stream at a speed of at least say 100kB/s?
A business grade service could include such a guarantee (with the appropriate SLAs).

ForumAdmin
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:22 pm

TerryP wrote:
ForumAdmin wrote: I would have to check the exact figure but I think this "less than dial up service" in off peak that Exetel is providing has allowed one 'customer' to download 276 gigabytes in the off peak period in the first 15 days this month and some 1,500 other customers to download between that figure and 60 gigabytes.

But that doesn't matter - the service being provided is clearly inadequate and you should not tolerate an ISP that is so incompetent it attempts to convince you that such a speed is acceptable in any way.
I know it is late at night after what has probably been a long day for you but I did not say "incompetent" and I did not say that downloading greater than 60 gigabytes was not achievable and I did not profess to know intimate details of your network other than from your own words here.

Could you please take my post seriously? To achieve decent download speeds during much of off-peak it is necessary to download from multiple, simultaneous sources. That may be OK for many people. What if I only want one source in one stream at a speed of at least say 100kB/s? Is it fair that I might get 20kB/s while other users open up 50 connections and get 1000kB/s?
1) You have already downloaded almost 60 gb on your "dial up speed service" - it not only is possible you have just done it in 15 days (and have done much more in the previous months)

2) I can't fix whatever your problem is and this is not the thread to do that - you're miles off topic so don't pursue that issue in this thread.

As for it being "late at night" and me having "a long day" - thank you so much for your solicitude but I work way past 10 pm at night and "long days" are something routine for people who run a small business as are long weeks, long years and long trienniums.

TerryP
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Location: Geelong

Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by TerryP » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:12 pm

ForumAdmin wrote: As for it being "late at night" and me having "a long day" - thank you so much for your solicitude but I work way past 10 pm at night and "long days" are something routine for people who run a small business as are long weeks, long years and long trienniums.
I only said that because you appeared to take offence at my words when none was intended.
ForumAdmin wrote: when I look at your service downloads for the past 15 days I see that you have downloaded almost 60 gbytes
ForumAdmin wrote: 1) You have already downloaded almost 60 gb ....... in 15 days
As you have said this twice about me, I just wish to say that maybe you have confused me with someone else as our account is 20GB so far this month.

Also, for the record, I do appreciate the fact that you make yourself available to interact with customers and that is something I have a lot of respect for.

Goldmouse
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Goldmouse » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:04 am

ForumAdmin wrote:
Peleus wrote: ...I'm trying to understand and learn.
...but I am neither your teacher nor your parents and I have no interest nor responsibility for your education.

I might accept such interrogation from Exetel's board (though I doubt I actually would, but I am certainly not going to explain intricate details to anyone else.

While you, and others posting here, may regard your 'questions' as reasonable and polite someone like me may regard them as insulting and condescending.

Just a thought.
Wow!! And here I was thinking that you said you took nothing posted on this forum in a personal manner. That's really odd because the only person taking anything personally in this thread is obviously you. (And yes, I read the entire thread). But then, maybe I need to get out my dictionary and consult the exact meaning of every word that you used in the off chance that the meaning that I assumed is not actually what was meant.

I, like many others, came to the forum in an attempt to understand a little better where I stood in relation to these changes. I think they are great and I have no problem with the CONTENT of the changes. What I have a problem with is the aggressive and abrupt manner in which you have responded to posts that are obviously from people just wanting to understand the details.

Goldmouse
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by Goldmouse » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:07 am

Oh and one more clarifying question (if it is allowed without being flamed for asking it that is):

How will the monthly average be provided for customers? Will it be an email sent out or an update on the Exetel webpage? If it is neither of these, please tell us, you customers, where we can find the information that will tell us where we stand.

alinos
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by alinos » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:09 am

so theres no kicking this month tho right cos i already have broken that 75GB mark as mentioned earlier

it was because im restoring my steam directory which i was going to just do over the next couple of months to use up the last of the off peak download then the plans changed 3 days after i got connected

im happy to dial it way back for the rest of the month just be nice to have some clarification

CoreyPlover
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:37 am

Goldmouse wrote:Oh and one more clarifying question (if it is allowed without being flamed for asking it that is):

How will the monthly average be provided for customers? Will it be an email sent out or an update on the Exetel webpage? If it is neither of these, please tell us, you customers, where we can find the information that will tell us where we stand.
From my quick perusal of this thread, I don't think that has been finalised, but I would think that the member facilities is the most logical place for it.

Also, briefly on your (and others) comments, you should not interpret forum posts as "aggressive or abrupt". Tone and nuances are not captured in forum posts in general, especially in lengthy and popular forums which require very quick responses to keep up with the flood of questions (there is, after all, only a few admins here trying to respond to many different users). Just interpret each post as being "short" by necessity and you'll realise there is no malice intended.

ForumAdmin
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by ForumAdmin » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:36 am

Goldmouse wrote:Oh and one more clarifying question (if it is allowed without being flamed for asking it that is):

How will the monthly average be provided for customers? Will it be an email sent out or an update on the Exetel webpage? If it is neither of these, please tell us, you customers, where we can find the information that will tell us where we stand.
It will be a few words and a number on the user facilities beneath your current month usage summary.

rseydler
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Re: Change to AUP - Section (d)

Post by rseydler » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:00 am

Well it is now showing in member facilities however I would have imagined that it would be higher than 79.5GB as that was the average X 3 yesterday?

d) For all plans that have an 'uncharged' off peak period Exetel will deem any individual customer who downloads more than three times the average of all other customers on these types of plans in any period as 'unfair users' and will ask such customers to move to another Exetel plan or to move to another provider.

Doesn't this mean that as the month progresses that the average will go up?

Does that mean no-one downloaded anything last night or does it take some time to update the max acceptable (based on the cumulative average x 3?)

or is my legalese completely off and my forum reading ability is gone? :D

Ron

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