Looking at changing plans

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Brooksy
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:24 pm
Location: NSW

Looking at changing plans

Post by Brooksy » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:56 am

G'day,

Over the past few days I've been looking at changing plans. We are current on an old Telstra plan TE-2D and looking at moving to the T20-4-R.
When we first signed for the current plan our "Current Line Speed" was listed at 25000/1024. Now it is listed as 18000/900, as per Exetel's information (not bandwidth test). Previously we could max our connection, by that I mean we could download from uncluttered sites @ up to 3.2MB/s, steady @ 3.1MB/s. This was reduced to maxing at 2.2 - 2.5 MB/s.

(I'm a bit p*ssed off that there is a $10 difference between city and regional customers for the same plan.)

My questions are:
1. If I change plans, will our available line speed be returned to 25000/1024?
2. Are all ADSL2+ users 'shaped' the same as us? Have all Exetel ADSL2+ users been shaped similarly or do city users have the full ADSL2+ line speed (25000/1024) available to them?

Regards,
Brooksy.

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Dazzled
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Re: Looking at changing plans

Post by Dazzled » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:31 am

You aren't being shaped, so much as (congestion excepted) receiving the speed the exchange DSLAM and your modem agree the line is capable of. The ADSL1 & 2 signals are a sum of analogue telephone high frequencies which need decoding by the modem to form a digital signal. Line attenuation and other line conditions negatively affect these frequency components in various ways. When you reboot a modem, while the lights are flashing about, a series of tests are being performed to allocate digital bits to each frequency "bin" and so compute a maximum line transmission speed.

Attenuation varies with line length to your place and Telstra cable type. This is the major determiner of line speed. The tech stuff is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.992.1. Have a look at the status page of your modem, and note the rates, attenuations and noise margins for the present service. 18000 is an optimistic guess for the bloke who lives across the road from the exchange. If you change ADSL2 plans, it's an accounting entry, not a line change. If your modem status has changed significantly over time, you may have a deteriorating line.

Telstra Wholesale has not only higher costs per head in most country areas, but also an equipment monopoly.

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CoreyPlover
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Re: Looking at changing plans

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:50 am

Brooksy wrote:1. If I change plans, will our available line speed be returned to 25000/1024?
No. This "listed" speed is simply a label. A while ago, Exetel change from the industry-norm practice of quoting "theoretical maximum speeds" (of 24000 / 1024) to quoting more realistic "practical maximum speeds" (of 18000/900). This listed speed has no impact on the actual speed you can and will achieve. In fact, 2.5MB/s equates to 20Mbps, so you are exceeding this quoted line speed already. You should be able to check your modem's status page for the actual downstream sync speed to check this.

Also, TE-2D and T20-4-R are both Telstra provided. Therefore you will retain the exact same physical connection, and speed, as you do now.
Brooksy wrote:2. Are all ADSL2+ users 'shaped' the same as us? Have all Exetel ADSL2+ users been shaped similarly or do city users have the full ADSL2+ line speed (25000/1024) available to them?
All users are in the same situation and no connections are shaped. As above, the change from 24000/1024 to 18000/900 is simply a label and does not change the physical line speed that your connection might achieve.
Brooksy wrote:Previously we could max our connection, by that I mean we could download from uncluttered sites @ up to 3.2MB/s, steady @ 3.1MB/s. This was reduced to maxing at 2.2 - 2.5 MB/s.
By any measure, 2.2 - 2.5MB/s is *well* above the average speed for ADSL2+, so there is no cause for concern.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Brooksy
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:24 pm
Location: NSW

Re: Looking at changing plans

Post by Brooksy » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:10 pm

Well gee Dedazzled, you really don't have much faith in the service do you, lol. (rhetorical)

I keep in touch with many non exetel users in our district and none of them come close to what we achieve, even those closer to the exchange. I keep a close eye on how things are working, doing exetel and speedtestdotnet bandwidth tests daily, rebooting modem(s) regularly, changing modems (between Netgear and ancient Dlink), checking this & that. We are 1.7km cable distance from our exchange, and, trust me, when we aren't suffering dropouts - none since my last 'vent' and discussions with Telstra tech, the slowest test results we've got = 14Mb/s fleeting, followup test = 17Mb/s. We're darned lucky. But, when you're used to driving a Ferrari and end up with a Falcon, sometimes you get a bit miffed, figuratively speaking, especially when reduced figures are posted in the isp site.

And thanks Corey, no probs mate, current modem stats are:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 23411 kbps 1022 kbps
Line Attenuation 23.3 db 14.6 db
Noise Margin 6.1 db 7.0 db
Pretty darned good.

So here we have a situation of misinformation. Why are rubbery figures quoted on the website? Guys I would NOT have posted if the figures listed on the website were the adsl figures and not the 18000/900 that is there now. Connection speed and data rate are 2 different kettles of fish.

Please remember that we are located in a rural town, every single household within shouting distance of us has a net connection, 90% of households in our township has an adsl connection, WE ARE FLYING!

So, for actual service, this is a big pat on the back, but as for information supplied, something really needs to be done. Perhaps returning to the theoretical figures with a rider statement, or changing 'Current' to 'Theoretical' maybe the solution. Perhaps to stop dopey old buggers like me firin' you guys up, lol.

Sometimes ya just gotta put up with old farts, lol.

Ok, time for me to add to the woes of another section of Exetel and bung in my plan change application.........

Thank you for your responses,

Brooksy

(Personal info - have been associated with computers since the mid 1970's, manufacturing and installing peripheral, conditioning and interface devices in process installations - comms was via STC uniselectors and mechanical relays, dedicated lines (showing my age), now retired.)

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CoreyPlover
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Re: Looking at changing plans

Post by CoreyPlover » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Brooksy wrote:Why are rubbery figures quoted on the website? Guys I would NOT have posted if the figures listed on the website were the adsl figures and not the 18000/900 that is there now. Connection speed and data rate are 2 different kettles of fish.
Historically, when Exetel quoted "24000/1024" they got lots of posts asking "why am I not obtaining the quoted speeds?".

It becomes a case of "damned if you do, damned if you dont". If they overquoted (and reverted back to "24000/1024" they might be (as they were) accused of deliberate or deceptive misinformation. If they quote "18000/900" they might (as you have) confuse users who think they are getting a slower than optimal connection. But in the grand scheme of things, it is probably better to give a moderate expectation, then exceed it rather than a high expectation and then fall short.

If you have some suggested wording that you think covers all bases, you can use the Suggestions Box in your Member Facilities (https://www.exetel.com.au/members/suggestion_box.php). Exetel openly welcome suggestions like this.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Brooksy
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:24 pm
Location: NSW

Re: Looking at changing plans

Post by Brooksy » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:09 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:
Brooksy wrote: ..........
It becomes a case of "damned if you do, damned if you dont". If they overquoted (and reverted back to "24000/1024" they might be (as they were) accused of deliberate or deceptive misinformation. If they quote "18000/900" they might (as you have) confuse users who think they are getting a slower than optimal connection. But in the grand scheme of things, it is probably better to give a moderate expectation, then exceed it rather than a high expectation and then fall short.

If you have some suggested wording that you think covers all bases, you can use the Suggestions Box in your Member Facilities (https://www.exetel.com.au/members/suggestion_box.php). Exetel openly welcome suggestions like this.
Damn those "damned if ya do, damned if ya don't" situations..... lol

Will do Corey, but headin' out so it won't be in there for several hours...... Just caught me before I shut the machine down, lol.

May I close with, "We get 'em!!!!", lol....
Cya pal.....

James
Exetel Staff
Posts: 1971
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:27 pm

Re: Looking at changing plans

Post by James » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:50 pm

Brooksy wrote:Well gee Dedazzled, you really don't have much faith in the service do you, lol. (rhetorical)

I keep in touch with many non exetel users in our district and none of them come close to what we achieve, even those closer to the exchange. I keep a close eye on how things are working, doing exetel and speedtestdotnet bandwidth tests daily, rebooting modem(s) regularly, changing modems (between Netgear and ancient Dlink), checking this & that. We are 1.7km cable distance from our exchange, and, trust me, when we aren't suffering dropouts - none since my last 'vent' and discussions with Telstra tech, the slowest test results we've got = 14Mb/s fleeting, followup test = 17Mb/s. We're darned lucky. But, when you're used to driving a Ferrari and end up with a Falcon, sometimes you get a bit miffed, figuratively speaking, especially when reduced figures are posted in the isp site.

And thanks Corey, no probs mate, current modem stats are:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 23411 kbps 1022 kbps
Line Attenuation 23.3 db 14.6 db
Noise Margin 6.1 db 7.0 db
Pretty darned good.

So here we have a situation of misinformation. Why are rubbery figures quoted on the website? Guys I would NOT have posted if the figures listed on the website were the adsl figures and not the 18000/900 that is there now. Connection speed and data rate are 2 different kettles of fish.

Please remember that we are located in a rural town, every single household within shouting distance of us has a net connection, 90% of households in our township has an adsl connection, WE ARE FLYING!

So, for actual service, this is a big pat on the back, but as for information supplied, something really needs to be done. Perhaps returning to the theoretical figures with a rider statement, or changing 'Current' to 'Theoretical' maybe the solution. Perhaps to stop dopey old buggers like me firin' you guys up, lol.

Sometimes ya just gotta put up with old farts, lol.

Ok, time for me to add to the woes of another section of Exetel and bung in my plan change application.........

Thank you for your responses,

Brooksy

(Personal info - have been associated with computers since the mid 1970's, manufacturing and installing peripheral, conditioning and interface devices in process installations - comms was via STC uniselectors and mechanical relays, dedicated lines (showing my age), now retired.)
As Corey has said, ADSL speeds differ by individual households, so we quote the average theoretical high, not the absolute high.

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