You want twice for less?

Mobile phone plans, SIM card activation and porting issue
mat27777777
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Location: Seymour

Re: You want twice for less?

Post by mat27777777 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:28 pm

Hi, I would suggest emailing Exetel sales as I have and quoting the above breach of their Terms & Conditions.

I have emailed them and they have apparently escalated my query.

I think at best we will get another full month if we are lucky, but after that will have no choice but to change plans if we wish to stay with Exetel.

But I will post any news I get from Exetel.

rigs
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Location: Wollongong

Re: You want twice for less?

Post by rigs » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:06 pm

Just to recap,

1) Exetel have breached their own T and Cs by not providing 30 days written notice of plan change.
2) The plans now on offer are not as competitive as other suppliers
3) There are no loyalty discounts for long time members anymore
4) Regional customers not in 4G service areas, are subsidising city cousins, as there is no price difference in plans as 3 and 4G are viewed as the same service by Exetel

These facts are not in dispute!

So now my wife has to change plan, to something that's not competitive. So I too am looking at moving my Exetel mobile to the supplier my wife moves to. Calls there are free if same supplier, plus the data allowance is 500Mb, not Exetels 200Mb ... all for the same $20 per month, per device.
Bottom Line = Exetels changes likely to bite them in the rear end!

Gob
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Location: QLD

Re: You want twice for less?

Post by Gob » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:25 am

rigs wrote:Just to recap,

1) Exetel have breached their own T and Cs by not providing 30 days written notice of plan change.
2) The plans now on offer are not as competitive as other suppliers
3) There are no loyalty discounts for long time members anymore
4) Regional customers not in 4G service areas, are subsidising city cousins, as there is no price difference in plans as 3 and 4G are viewed as the same service by Exetel

These facts are not in dispute!

So now my wife has to change plan, to something that's not competitive. So I too am looking at moving my Exetel mobile to the supplier my wife moves to. Calls there are free if same supplier, plus the data allowance is 500Mb, not Exetels 200Mb ... all for the same $20 per month, per device.
Bottom Line = Exetels changes likely to bite them in the rear end!
Just to throw in my 2 cents here also.
There is another Point that is being missed badly.
Point 5. For over 12 months I have been complaining about extremely poor data access. (Like many others apparently) I have been repeatedly lied too. The data access speed very very often is LESS than really really slow Dialup speed. I have tested this on a number of phones, including an ipad, usb stick and android tablet. EXETEL tells me everytime there is nothing wrong at their end. YES THERE IS, THERE IS NO BANDWIDTH AVAILABLE!! THAT IS EXETEL'S ISSUE.
They have a duty to supply a service as advertised. Less than dialup speed is Not what the are Advertising.

I started a thread over here the other day, not realising this one had been started also viewtopic.php?f=338&t=40962

Also I have a Z8 plan for my son, and have received no notification regarding any plan change for this.
Really this is just another cockup, like all of the other cockups of late.

Owe, AND by the way. Exetel is advertising they have a 100,000 customers, REALLY!!! Is that all, after in excess of 10 years in business.
1. After going through the boom in the Internet service provider industry and the mobile phone services and still only have 100,000. I'd be ashamed, not advertising it.
2. Whilst 100,000 is not really that many clients it should give Exetel some pulling power. Why isn't Exetel you using it?
3. IMO, the above is very proof Exetel needs to change it's business model, (nowadays in a number of ways), primarily ACTUALLY advertise their services, word of mouth clearly has not done enough!! (All be it, I think Exetel has completely missed the boat now, and I suspect the countdown to demise is eminent)

If this change goes ahead I won't be staying, both mobile plans and eventually the USB data plan. I expect like many others and if they are not competitive anymore, how many new customers do they really think are going join their service?

Maybe that was 3 or 4 cents worth. But feeling Vented now. YES EXETEL I AM P I S S E D OFF

James
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by James » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:55 am

Gob wrote:
rigs wrote:Just to recap,

1) Exetel have breached their own T and Cs by not providing 30 days written notice of plan change.
2) The plans now on offer are not as competitive as other suppliers
3) There are no loyalty discounts for long time members anymore
4) Regional customers not in 4G service areas, are subsidising city cousins, as there is no price difference in plans as 3 and 4G are viewed as the same service by Exetel

These facts are not in dispute!

So now my wife has to change plan, to something that's not competitive. So I too am looking at moving my Exetel mobile to the supplier my wife moves to. Calls there are free if same supplier, plus the data allowance is 500Mb, not Exetels 200Mb ... all for the same $20 per month, per device.
Bottom Line = Exetels changes likely to bite them in the rear end!
Just to throw in my 2 cents here also.
There is another Point that is being missed badly.
Point 5. For over 12 months I have been complaining about extremely poor data access. (Like many others apparently) I have been repeatedly lied too. The data access speed very very often is LESS than really really slow Dialup speed. I have tested this on a number of phones, including an ipad, usb stick and android tablet. EXETEL tells me everytime there is nothing wrong at their end. YES THERE IS, THERE IS NO BANDWIDTH AVAILABLE!! THAT IS EXETEL'S ISSUE.
They have a duty to supply a service as advertised. Less than dialup speed is Not what the are Advertising.

I started a thread over here the other day, not realising this one had been started also viewtopic.php?f=338&t=40962

Also I have a Z8 plan for my son, and have received no notification regarding any plan change for this.
Really this is just another cockup, like all of the other cockups of late.

Owe, AND by the way. Exetel is advertising they have a 100,000 customers, REALLY!!! Is that all, after in excess of 10 years in business.
1. After going through the boom in the Internet service provider industry and the mobile phone services and still only have 100,000. I'd be ashamed, not advertising it.
2. Whilst 100,000 is not really that many clients it should give Exetel some pulling power. Why isn't Exetel you using it?
3. IMO, the above is very proof Exetel needs to change it's business model, (nowadays in a number of ways), primarily ACTUALLY advertise their services, word of mouth clearly has not done enough!! (All be it, I think Exetel has completely missed the boat now, and I suspect the countdown to demise is eminent)

If this change goes ahead I won't be staying, both mobile plans and eventually the USB data plan. I expect like many others and if they are not competitive anymore, how many new customers do they really think are going join their service?

Maybe that was 3 or 4 cents worth. But feeling Vented now. YES EXETEL I AM P I S S E D OFF

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm sorry to hear about your slow data speeds, but if this is via a mobile device, there is nothing Exetel can do about congestion on Optus' end. The only solution woud lbe to move to a provider who has better coverage in your area, or wait for Optus to upgrade the network in your area.

I would have thought 100,000+ customers, and revenue of $100,000,000.00 would be something not many businesses would do in ten years? Have you yourself ever created a business with that many customers, or revenue? Chances are you haven't, and thank you also for your assessment on our "countdown to demise", should we put a bet on when this might occur?

James

Surfn Chick
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by Surfn Chick » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:27 pm

James, just my opinion and just saying you shouldn't really being answering posts with comments like that.

Gob
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Location: QLD

Re: You want twice for less?

Post by Gob » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:51 pm

Surfn Chick wrote:James, just my opinion and just saying you shouldn't really being answering posts with comments like that.
Thanks Surfin Chick for that response. I'm glad it was not only me that saw this as, wwow wrong in every way!!

Cope this also. Got a response from Exetel Sales this Afternoon.
**************************
Dear John,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Please be advised that the plan you are currently on has been discontinued, as we are unable to sustain the plans at the current pricing.Therefore we are no longer able to provide the same plan. To ensure Exetel’s services are sustainable we are required to move the service to a new plan. Kindly note that we have provided you with the minimum required time period of 21 days when migrating your current plan to a new plan.

Regards,

Nicole Ratnayake
Team Leader - Residential Sales
Exetel Pty Ltd

**************************

Their own TERMS and Conditions mean nothing apparently, nor do standard Contractual terms.
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NOW Respond JAMES

I also find this Sentence extremely interesting "To ensure Exetel’s services are sustainable we are required to move the service to a new plan.", Especially since James was just assure me the Exetel Revenue was so great!

P.S. My data connection has totally gone to pot as write this, which happens every day.

Surfn Chick
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by Surfn Chick » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:48 pm

Gob, I agree with your comments 50/50 and would totally agree with Exetel that they are unable to control Optus's coverage. This is something Optus identify with totally especially in my area and have advised me that to get service it is only on the street and not in the home. This may never have been pointed out to you and without this knowledge I can see why you would get frustrated.

bruceee
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by bruceee » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:02 pm

So is it 21 days or 30 days ? The Ombudsman is calling

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CoreyPlover
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by CoreyPlover » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:21 pm

I'll preface the following post by making it clear that I am not an Exetel official (only a volunteer) and that nothing outlined below constitutes legal advice of any sort.

The only mention in http://help.exetel.com.au/Mobile_Terms_ ... _JAN14.php of "21 days" occurs in section 3.2:
3.2 If Exetel varies a Fixed-Term Agreement under clause 3.1 [i.e. "without the customer's consent"]:
a) Exetel must if the variation affects the Customer and it is not a change of a type listed in clause 3.3:
i) comply with the provisions of the Telecommunications Legislation;
ii) giving the Customer twenty-one (21) days' notice in writing of the change before the change occurs; and
iii) offer the Customer the right to cancel the Service (within forty-two (42) days from the date of the notice) without incurring fees or charges other than Accrued Charges.
These conditions are equivalent to those enforced under the Telecommunications Consumer Protections Code (see https://www.tio.com.au/__data/assets/pd ... tracts.pdf for instance)

However, A "Fixed Term Agreement" is an:
Agreement (other than a month-to-month Agreement) that has a minimum term during which time neither the customer nor Exetel are free to change the terms of the agreement or to cancel the service, other than as specifically provided for in the agreement.
My understanding of the affected mobile plans are that they are month-to-month agreements and therefore distinctly not Fixed-Term Agreements.

What this implies to me is that no clause of Exetel's Mobile Terms and Conditions is relevant, because the change is dealing with a "Variation to a Non-Fixed Term Agreement" and, as such, it is not covered by Clause 3 (which is the Variation of Fixed Term Agreements) nor Clause 12.4 (which is the Cancellation of Non-Fixed Term Agreements). Similarly, nothing in the Telecommunication Consumer Protections Code deals with non-fixed term agreements. However, it would seem reasonable to expect the notification period for variation of a Non-Fixed Term Agreement to be no more onerous than that of a Fixed Term Agreement (namely, "21 days notification with an option to cancel without penalty extending to 42 days").

My conclusion from all this is that Exetel's notification of this variation probably complies with contractual requirements, so long as the consumer maintains the right to cancel the service (either the old Z15 et al, or the new ExeSim service) before 15 May 2014 (i.e. 42 days from notice) without incurring "cancellation" penalties. However, if you wait until after 1 May 2014 to cancel your service, you may be liable for the "Accrued Charges" of the new ExeSim plan.

Therefore, I would suggest that if any customer is considering cancelling their service, they ought to do so before 1 May, thus avoiding the potentially complex and frustrating ramifications of contract law and Telecommunication Consumer Protection Codes.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

Gob
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by Gob » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:02 pm

Surfn Chick wrote:Gob, I agree with your comments 50/50 and would totally agree with Exetel that they are unable to control Optus's coverage. This is something Optus identify with totally especially in my area and have advised me that to get service it is only on the street and not in the home. This may never have been pointed out to you and without this knowledge I can see why you would get frustrated.
Coverage in terms of what I am talking about has nothing is not the problem. I have full, 100% Signal strength on both my phone and the USB stick, yet on both I often get little to no data throughput.
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Interestingly since my last post, and I expect total coincidence, I suddenly got really good data access. Go figure, but better than I have seen in an extremely long time.

Gob
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by Gob » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:18 pm

CoreyPlover wrote:I'll preface the following.....
Corey, I don't know what to make of this, you make some very good points.
I will say that I still think it stinks something chronic!
I did think when I joined many years ago that Exetel was a decent company to do business with, not just another Optus or Telstra. However this opinion has been changing for a couple of years now and this is really putting the icing on the cake. I guess it's like a virus, the attitude just spreads over time.

What customers want and need has nothing to do with a companies moto anymore, along with no desire to actually help customers, just to gouge a little more money from them.
I know this may sound a little harsh and perhaps it is, however it is too harsh, Show us!
Last edited by Gob on Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gidget
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by Gidget » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:49 pm

Signal strength and data throughput are two different things - a strong signal doesn't necessarily lead to fast data throughput.
Log a fault ticket here
or call Exetel VOIP numbers (02) 8030 1000 or 1300 788 141 (log faults 24x7)
Exetel Support Portal

mat27777777
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by mat27777777 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:51 pm

I have now received this response from exetel.

We checked with the relevant product manager and was advised that the 30 days’ prior notice is required if the service is being cancelled. Since we are not cancelling the service and are changing the plan that you are currently on, the notice period required is 21 days prior to the change, and this is specified in the below Terms and Conditions.

http://help.exetel.com.au/Mobile_Terms_ ... _JAN14.php

3.2 If Exetel varies a Fixed-Term Agreement under clause 3.1:
a. Exetel must if the variation affects the Customer and it is not a change of a type listed in clause 3.3:
b.
i. comply with the provisions of the Telecommunications Legislation;
ii. giving the Customer twenty-one (21) days' notice in writing of the change before the change occurs; and
iii. offer the Customer the right to cancel the Service (within forty-two (42) days from the date of the notice) without incurring fees or charges other than Accrued Charges.

The options available for you are to either change to one of the mobile plans displayed under the "Change Plan" section within your Exetel Members Facilities OR make arrangements to port away to a provider of your choice, that suits your requirements, OR cancel the service, as advised in the email notification that you received.

If you do not take one of the above actions, the plan will automatically change to the plan specified in the email notification that you received, from the next billing cycle, as advised in the email.

Regards,

Exetel Sales

Personally I still believe that Exetel are not just varying a contract, they are cancelling one plan and making us move to another plan. A variation would be something like a fee increase, or a reduction in downloads, not removing it all together.

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CoreyPlover
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by CoreyPlover » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:46 am

mat27777777 wrote:Personally I still believe that Exetel are not just varying a contract, they are cancelling one plan and making us move to another plan. A variation would be something like a fee increase, or a reduction in downloads, not removing it all together.
There are other aspects to these circumstances that would give credence to your intuition too, like the fact that the service is going from 3G to 4G.

I don't believe that Exetel Sales have interpreted their Terms and Conditions correctly, nor do I believe they have quoted the correct clause. The Z8 / Z15 / etc plans are clearly not "Fixed Term Agreements" (the definition given in Exetel's Terms & Conditions define month-to-month contracts as being distinct from Fixed Term Agreements), so clause 3.2 is not directly applicable. That, plus the fact that Exetel are significantly varying both the pricing and the data quota to the detriment of the customer means that clause 3.3(f) or 3.3(h) might be more applicable. Nevertheless, I do retain a belief that 21 days notification is a correct and reasonable notification period, for other reasons as outlined in my prior post.

It is an unfortunate and confusing set of circumstances (both with respect to the "variation/cancellation" of the plans and Exetel's handling of it). But I always prefer a "substance-over-form" test, and ultimately the customer retains the right to port their service away without penalty if they feel this is warranted.
I am a volunteer moderator and not an Exetel staff member. As with all forum posts, mine do not constitute any "official" Exetel position. Support tickets may be logged via https://helpdesk.exetel.com.au or residentialsupport@exetel.com.au

vbap
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Re: You want twice for less?

Post by vbap » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:56 am

I agree with Corey's view. However, I do think Exetel could have avoided some negative PR by giving the full month's notice.

I have not been with Exetel as long as some of you here, but my impression was they always offer a service using a "Cost plus" approach, and that when the cost side of the equation increases, then the overall price needs to as well. It's obviously reached a point where it's not economical so a change is required. But I doubt this decision was reached "instantly" and would have been carefully considered, which makes the strict interpretation of 21 days' notice a bit harsh. (But let's say they issue the notice on May 1, 30 days would still mean a customer had only one billing cycle to make a decision, so maybe the negative PR would be unavoidable...).

Looking around for a Z15 alternative for my Mum (high calls usage low data requirements), I realise options are a bit thin on the ground - certainly none that I could trust without me constantly checking on things since she lives interstate. Telechoice seems the likely option at this stage - maybe their $20 kogan deal.

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