Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Connection issues, drop outs or speed related faults for ADSL and ADSL2+ services
ocular
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Location: Brisbane

Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:08 pm

Have 3 exetel (optus) PSTN lines coming into office
line 1 has ADSL service which is working fine
Have advertised line 1 as fax no. so use this for incoming and outgoing faxes. Have a central filter fitted.
The combination of adsl and fax has worked well for last 3yrs, but lately am having trouble sending multiple page faxes, resulting in transmission errors usually at page 2 or 3.
Have taken off everything from line eg filter/adsl modem , tried 3 different fax machines- EPSON MFP, netcomm roadster56l usb modem ans a multitech MT9234ZBA-usb. Have hooked the usb modems up to active fax server software so I can look at the transmission error codes. If the fax succeeds (50 percent of the time - then the transmission rate is low 9600 BPS). If I use lines 2 or 3 I get great fax transmission speeds 21600BPS and no transmission errors.
The strange thing is that on line 1 is the ADSL and the ADSL internet connection is fine, no dropouts, pings 33ms, 11Mbps d/l.

Have a residential service with telstra/belong and the same 3 fax modems work fine going to the same endpoint I used for testing line 1 of my exetel office service.
I seem to have isolated the line as a problem. It is possible to a poor fax line quality and a good adsl/internet line quality?

I have emailed smbsupport@exetel.com.au for help

KavindaS
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by KavindaS » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:37 pm

ocular wrote:Have 3 exetel (optus) PSTN lines coming into office
line 1 has ADSL service which is working fine
Have advertised line 1 as fax no. so use this for incoming and outgoing faxes. Have a central filter fitted.
The combination of adsl and fax has worked well for last 3yrs, but lately am having trouble sending multiple page faxes, resulting in transmission errors usually at page 2 or 3.
Have taken off everything from line eg filter/adsl modem , tried 3 different fax machines- EPSON MFP, netcomm roadster56l usb modem ans a multitech MT9234ZBA-usb. Have hooked the usb modems up to active fax server software so I can look at the transmission error codes. If the fax succeeds (50 percent of the time - then the transmission rate is low 9600 BPS). If I use lines 2 or 3 I get great fax transmission speeds 21600BPS and no transmission errors.
The strange thing is that on line 1 is the ADSL and the ADSL internet connection is fine, no dropouts, pings 33ms, 11Mbps d/l.

Have a residential service with telstra/belong and the same 3 fax modems work fine going to the same endpoint I used for testing line 1 of my exetel office service.
I seem to have isolated the line as a problem. It is possible to a poor fax line quality and a good adsl/internet line quality?

I have emailed smbsupport@exetel.com.au for help
We have received your detailed email via the ticket ref 11025812. We will check and reply back to you through the same email thread.

James
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by James » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:51 am

Why not port this number to our fax2email service, and use our email2fax service to send faxes?

James

ocular
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:06 pm

James wrote:Why not port this number to our fax2email service, and use our email2fax service to send faxes?

James
I don't believe that service would meet the standards for transmission of health data. Correct me if I am wrong. Old fashion fax does.

I have found out that the line I am having problems with Line 1 - is an optus line. The other two lines (lines 2 & 3) I have tested the (3)fax system(s) on reliably transmits a 15 page document. Line 1 drops out at page 3-6 every time. Lines 2 & 3 are telstra lines.

A line test with nothing connected has been done at the Exetel end and the parameters suggest everything is OK. The issue has been escalated to optus and I have agreed to pay $220 for wrong callout. I need to be there as optus will test to the MDF, not sure if they will actually test fax transmission so I need to plug the fax modem in at the MDF and send a 15 page fax.

Anyone with any technical knowledge care to comment - is it possibe to have a PSTN line with a good adsl and voice service and poor fax transmission?

Dazzled
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by Dazzled » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:07 pm

I did it once, but I long ago gave the fax to a doctor! The fax needs a filter, so I wonder if you could test it on the ADSL line with a separate filter, bypassing the central filter.

ocular
Posts: 115
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:29 pm

Dazzled wrote: The fax needs a filter,
So do I stick an in line filter between the fax modem and line 1 before or after the central filter?

is there any official recommendation on how to setup a fax on an adsl line in terms of filters?

I have done some more testing.

I can fax a 15 page document into my Line 1 from 2 different external faxes but I can't do the reverse, ie fax a 15 page document from Line 1 to 2 external fax nos. The fax transmission establishes but have a few pages it falls over.
Off to find an inline filter and try some more testing.

ocular
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 am

Dazzles comments got me searching and there certainly are anecdotal reports of people having fax problems on adsl lines that were solved by extra filters

an old but relevant thread from 2006

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/629906

so I stuck an extra TPLink splitter filter in line using the line/phone ports on the splitter and was able to fax out a 14 page document (slowly but successfully) 12mins (left the existing central splitter/filter in place)

interesting if I installed the filter inline with the correct orientation I could fax out 10 pages before failure, if I reversed the filter so "line " on filter was connected to fax modem then could fax out 14 pages!
Tested if any problem with incoming fax transmission still a fast 6 mins for 14 pages - so extra filter has no attenuation on incoming fax speed.

I think my central filter - which is 10 yrs old is failing.

Better call off the optus technician who is going to come and tell me my line is OK and charge me $220.

The filter is a ACS 931E2+ ( same filter as on one of the external faxes I used for a test endpoint) - advancedcircuits.com.au are no lonfer around. Any recommendations on a highly regarded filter that is going to solve my problem.

KavindaS
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by KavindaS » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:14 am

ocular wrote:
Dazzled wrote: The fax needs a filter,
So do I stick an in line filter between the fax modem and line 1 before or after the central filter?

is there any official recommendation on how to setup a fax on an adsl line in terms of filters?

I have done some more testing.

I can fax a 15 page document into my Line 1 from 2 different external faxes but I can't do the reverse, ie fax a 15 page document from Line 1 to 2 external fax nos. The fax transmission establishes but have a few pages it falls over.
Off to find an inline filter and try some more testing.
Since your same device having no issues when using other 2 copper lines, we have escalated with Optus according to this line, to check if anything can be identified or suggest via the reference number 11031939. We will update you accordingly.

ocular
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:38 am

The two end points I have been using to test my Line 1 fax service are also ADSL/Fax services at different premises non optus). I was at one of these locations this morning and using the fax modem I had been using from my Line 1 poor performing fax service I hooked this fax modem to this external location service pstn line - straight to the outlet with no filters or anything on the line and was able to fax a 14 page document out.

This suggests that it is a reasonable expectation for a fax modem to work on an adsl/pstn line when it is the only device on the copper wire line.

My problematic line 1 seems to have some degree of noise that is interfering with the fax modem that causes transmission loss. Even with a central filter in place the problem persists, but by putting a double filter in place the interference is reduced to allow full transmission to proceed. Thank you for escalating this issue. I await your advice from the optus technicians.

Dazzled
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by Dazzled » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:59 am

The test I suggested is actually testing the central filter, by putting the fax on the other non-central-filtered line.

Fax uses an analogue signal in the audible range if put through a loudspeaker; you can listen to its chirping in a phone handset. The 1100 Hz calling tone is well known. It doesn't want high frequency interference from an ADSL signal on the same line during a fax call. A (low pass) filter takes care of that.

ocular
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:28 pm

Dazzled wrote:The test I suggested is actually testing the central filter, by putting the fax on the other non-central-filtered line.
Does this mean putting the fax on the unfiltered adsl output of the filter? Is the ADSL output of a filter completely unfiltered? ie the same as connecting directly to the copper line?
As Line 1 comes in via a patch panel I can remove the filter completely and connect the fax directly to Line 1 - I still have the same transmission fall out and slow connection speeds mostly with multipage outgoing faxes, occasionally with incoming faxes.

I have two other ADSL copper lines at other premises both with fax lines, if I take the fax modem from Line 1 and take it to both other premises the fax modem works perfectly both on the phone output of the filter and also if the fax modem connects directly to the ADSL line with nothing else connected to the line (no filter , no phone, no adsl modem).

I have tried a different central filter and a single inline filter with fax only and no improvement.

I notice that the fax that this Line 1 sends on most sent pages there is one line that looks smudged or the line has slightly jumped in its position consistent with a transmission blip.

ocular
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:38 pm

Can exetel smbsupport please confirm that ticket 11031939 is still open and has been escalated to optus for technical advice and investigation is continuing.

I seem to have a number of tickets for this issue and have been advised that ticket 11025812 has been closed - the email response doesnt contain the thread so I am not sure if the whole case has been closed.

Is there a portal where I can view the support ticket in its entirety?
thanks

KavindaS
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by KavindaS » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:31 pm

ocular wrote:Can exetel smbsupport please confirm that ticket 11031939 is still open and has been escalated to optus for technical advice and investigation is continuing.

I seem to have a number of tickets for this issue and have been advised that ticket 11025812 has been closed - the email response doesnt contain the thread so I am not sure if the whole case has been closed.

Is there a portal where I can view the support ticket in its entirety?
thanks
We have closed the service issue and the Optus escalation as per your confirmation received through the email ticket 11025812. However we have received a response from the Optus management related to the escalation, they have confirmed a system change and need to re check with you. However considering your last response, we will re-open the investigation with them and periodically update via the same email ticket 11025812. Please reply back with your testing to the same email thread only, as a senior engineer is following up this.

ocular
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Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by ocular » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:52 pm

Thank you for continuing to monitor this ticket. I have found the ticket on helpdesk.exetel.com.au and noted a reply about 2.30pm today advising that "something has been done" to the fax line by optus. However further testing shows no improvement sending multipage documents. I will monitor the helpdesk ticket as I find the email responses difficult to follow. I have sent a reply via helpdesk awaiting further advice.

KavindaS
Exetel Staff
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:59 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Poor Fax line quality - ADSL good

Post by KavindaS » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:09 pm

ocular wrote:Thank you for continuing to monitor this ticket. I have found the ticket on helpdesk.exetel.com.au and noted a reply about 2.30pm today advising that "something has been done" to the fax line by optus. However further testing shows no improvement sending multipage documents. I will monitor the helpdesk ticket as I find the email responses difficult to follow. I have sent a reply via helpdesk awaiting further advice.
Thank you. We will continue with the SMB support queue.

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